Model N and self starting.

[Brian]

Some time ago there was a discussion about 12V starting on "Model N" tractors. I drove a Stanhay Bomb Hoist in the 1960's, based on the "N" which was used as the garage crane. She was early 1940's.

"Vaporising", our NVTEC magazine here in England, is running a series about Fordson tractors from the early versions through to the 1960's. In it, they state that 12 volt starting was available on the "N" as an optional extra, along with road lighting as far back as 1935.

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Brian,

Our first fordson was a model N which was painted blue and orange which should make it a 1936 model at least. As far as I can remember it never had the flange on the left hand side of the engine block to bolt the starter to. OK I was very young at the time but I do remember the difference between our later E27N and the N after my father managed to put a con rod through the block on the model N. Neither had electric start but the E27N had a flat plate covering where the starter would go. If electric start was available on the model N there would be no way of distinguishing the difference in between a model N and a an E27N engine block unless starting was acomplished using a different means. I am very interested in this particular question as I want a model N as part of my collection. I know how hard it is to start one of these mongrel tractors because I had to do it myself many times when I was young. Electric start is the only way to go. My understanding is that electric start was only added to E27N engine block castings and no model N ever had provision for a startermotor. Please correct me if I am wrong and I will forever be greatfull. My understanding was that road lighting was available since 1935 but not electric starting.

Regards, Frank.

[Brian]

Frank,
We certainly had electric start on the bomb hoist and that was fitted from new according to the old boys who were still there when I was around. I have also seen another one at a show with it fitted.

This article was quite clear that it was offered in 1935 but I will keep digging.

Starting wise, my friend Mark Pugh is the expert. I have been to shows and road runs with him and Edward, and helped them load up early in the mornings when the tractors were cold. Every one they have starts on two pulls over on the handle without fail. They have tip top mags and good compression too.

[Emiel]

Hello everybody,

Just a little parts list information, I have no "experience" at all on this topic.

I have an Fordson parts list, reprinted version of 1953 which covers al Fordson tractors from 1917 to 1945.

In this book from 1931 a generator is listed for the Fordson, original part No. N-10000-A and replaced with "B" from 1940 onwards.

Head lights, etc are also listed from 1931 onwards. I can not find out whether that is was available from 1931, or that it can be fitted to tractors from 1931 onwards. In this book, there is no talk about starters at all.

Might it be possible that some non Ford supply of starters was available, which used an arrangement where a starter was used wich turned the engine over a flat belt on the front pulley, or something comparable?

As far as I can find out in different parts list, the starter possibility was cast in from beginning of the E27N blocks, starter ring gears were in the first year approximately not fitted to the flywheels.

When fitting a E27N block to an N tractor, the crankshaft and flywheel of an N should be fitted, due to the different clutch assembly. I'm not sure whether a starter ring gear fits the N flywheel. On the showground in the Dutch village of Panningen one can see almos every year som N Fordsons with E27N blocks. I've never seen a starter fitted although.

I hope this is a little bit usefull information.

Best regards,

Emiel

[Eric Schulz]

That someone else fitted electric start to an N model is possible. I do not believe that there ever was a factory fitted starter. Surely if there was such a thing, it would have been advertised as an extra cost option?
Does anyone have a photo showing the starter on the bomb hoist?
Maybe I am getting old and grumpy, too, so I am going to need convincing that there was an electric start N.
Regarding starting, as someone else has said, it is not all that hard to get a Fordson to start easily. Good compression is not necessary. As a mater of fact, you hardly need any at all. Get the fuel into the combustion chamber and hit it with a good spark and the engine will go.

Eric

[Brian]

Your getting as grumpy as me Eric! Sorry but I have no other information other than what has been published as I reported BUT I did drive the bomb hoist for eleven years and that was an unmodifide Fordson N. complete with dynamo and starter.

I will check with my colleagues who also drove her and see if they can remember any details. Could it have been an extra on industrial tractors? Its one of those things that I wish I had taken more notice of at the time but we were young and more interested on Super Sixes and Muir Hills.

[Brian]

I have re-read the article now abut 10 times and it clearly states that electric starting was a factory option from 1935.

I have therefore written to the editor via snail mail and asked if he would please confirm the fact and if he could give me any data and where the information came from.

I will report back when he replies.

[Brian]

Right chaps, I have had a reply from the author of the article. His name is J. Whitlam and he researches and writes scripts for Second Sight Productions on Fordsons.

The information seems to come from a gentleman who worked on the tractors in the factory at Dagenham and relates to a small number of tractors built for export. He indicates that the tractors were industrial versions. 1935 however is the definite date.

Looking further into the unit I remember driving, she seemed to date from around 1942 rather than 1939, was ex RAF and painted RAF light blue. She was built as a Stanhay Mobile Crane and slightly modified to a bomb hoist.

I was starting to wonder if, as Ford has done many times in the past, a few E27N blocks from trials etc. were released to make the "N" electrical start. However Mr. Whitlam is fairly definite on the 1935 date.

I now have Mr. Whitlams address and will forward your comments on to him.

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Brian,

The possibility that some E27N style blocks were cast before 1945 is interesting. I wonder if any one who has a Model N with the starter flange has ever checked the casting dates on the block. As you have said Ford were known for releasing limited production ahead of official release and there was a war on in the interem. I wonder if the original release date for the E27N might have been intended to be around 1940, but was delayed by the war. The fact that they were released so soon after the war indicates that the design must have been mostly finished before the war. I can't imagine too much design happening while people were ducking bombs.

I know I will check casting numbers and engine numbers on every Model N I see with the starter flange from now on.

Regards, Frank.