Fordson ID

Eric Schulz · Post by **Eric Schulz** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:27 am

There have been one or two people recently who are not sure how to identify the different model Fordsons. There can be problems, as most parts are interchangeable, so there are a lot of hybrids around.
This is how I pick the differences, assuming they are in original condition.

F - Made in the US of A. The engine has a flywheel magneto with a terminal post screwed into the flywheel housing. There will be no magneto drive on the right front of the engine. The water washer air cleaner is rectangular. The front wheels will have steel spokes and rims. The mudguards, when fitted, will be extended down the back to drawbar level and will have tool boxes incorparated.

N - In Australia we had no Cork, Ireland, built tractors before 1929. These now have the external magneto but no governor on earlier production. A water pump has been fitted and the front wheels are cast iron. The air cleaner is larger and cast in with the dashboard, with no obvious air intake. The mudguards are the same as the last of the F’s, having tapered or pointed toolboxes.

Blue N - Made at Dagenham. Looks very similar, except for shorter, lighter looking mudguards, ribs on the radiator top tank. There was now a longer steering column incorporating the air intake, the drivers seat was moved back and the clutch pedal was behind the axle.

Orange N - New oil bath air cleaner, rectangular in shape with a long intake pipe.

Green N - In Australia the mudguard caps were the same as were continued on the E27N, and the mounting brackets were pressed steel. In the UK there were narrow guards that I have not seen in Australia. There was also an implement mounting pad cast into the radiator mounting.

Eric

Post by **Brian** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:32 am

Eric,

Thats great information! May we put a copy in the Wiki as and when we build an information topic.

Eric Schulz · Post by **Eric Schulz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:35 am

By now i thought someone would have pointed out an error or two. So far so good!
Brian, this information is free of copyright, so you may use it as you see fit.
A good idea would be to ad to it, including dates etc. It should also be mentioned that mudguards, wings and fenders are all the same things.

Eric

Aussie Frank · Post by **Aussie Frank** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:00 pm

Hi Eric,

Just trying to get the time line right. Model F earliest and manufactured in Detroit Michigan. Painted Grey. Later Model N manufactured in Cork Ireland. (Had a great argument with an Irishman in Dublin that swore that no tractor was ever produced in Ireland. The bet was a bottle of Whiskey if I could bring him proof the next day. Needless to say I never saw the man again.) I thought these were the Orange ones. Then followed by the Dagenham Blue and Orange ones up to the war followed by the Green ones. The E27N then supposedly took on the prewar Blue and Orange because it was a favorite colur scheme of Henry Ford. I Have no idea about any other details apart from the colours.

Regards, Frank.

P.S. Our Model N was a Blue and Orange one which should have made it 1933 to 1939 or somthing like that.

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:18 am

Hi,

Just a little additional information for those who are interested:

IMHO Fordsons are made as follows:

Model F:
1917 to 1926 in Dearborn and Rouge plants, Michigan USA
1919 to 1922 in Cork Ireland

Model N:
1929 to 1932 in Cork
1933 to 1945 in Dagenham

F and N used to be gray up to about the cease of production in Cork. About half a year the production was stopped when the tooling came from Cork to Dagenham. This time was used to improve the desing and change the colours to Blue with Orange.

From 1937 some engine "improvements" were made, no money was availble for a fancy styled design of the tractor, so the colour changed to Orange.

In the war the tractor were made green to make them less visible from the air.

After the war in the very early e27n production, colours were changed back to blue and orange.

I've based this information on the "Ford Tractor Story, parte One" by Stuart Gibbard and the different books of Allan T Condie on this subject.

Best regards

Emiel

Eric Schulz · Post by **Eric Schulz** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:53 am

Frank, the Cork built tractors were definitely grey. The orange tractors came after the blue ones, guaranteed.
The wheel colours on E27N's was selected by the state distributors. In Victoria the wheels were yellow for the first year or two, then red, the most common colour. I think it was only in their last year that the wheels became orange.
South Australian wheels were all yellow?
Emiel, thanks for your comments. As you would know, lots more details could be given. My initial aim was just a simple identification of the main or easily-visible changes.
There were hidden changes in the 1929-on tractors, like 1/8 inch bigger cylinder bore, changes to clutch, transmission brake and bearings, etc.

Eric

Aussie Frank · Post by **Aussie Frank** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:31 am

Thanks Eric and Emiel,

That clears up every thing. It also solves a puzzle that I had in my mind, why did the Irish in Cork paint their tractors Orange? Well the answer is that they didn't The tractors were Grey. I knew no self respecting Irish man would ever paint anything Orange. It also tells me that our first Fordson was older than I thought, it was Blue and you couldn't realy tell the colour of the wheels. so it wound have been somewhere between 1933 to 1937.

It also explains why my E27N petrol Kero has red wheels, but only just as she was probably built some time in July 1951 given the casting codes. I was starting to have second thoughts about painting the wheels Red, but now I will do it for sure as that was how she was delivered in Victoria.

Regards, Frank.

Kav · Post by **Kav** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:22 am

Hi Frank and all, I think there are some more changes or different colours in the pre-WW2 Fordsons as my father had a tractor in 1947 which had done a lot of work as it had an engine rebuild and gearbox bearing replacement at that stage. This tractor was definitely identified as being made in Cork when they were getting parts for it and it was painted Orange from new. Today I had a look at another E27N Fordson which is about a1948-49 model. It has Orange wheels from new but you can see the Yellow paint under the orange where it is worn and faded. The Front wheels on that one are cast iron centres,with pressed rims attached to them. The steel wheel 1948 E27N had yellow wheels all round. The 1951 Model still has the original Orange Wheels. None of them has had the wheels painted since new. My Uncles E27N with the P6 had Red wheels from new. It is probable that the Rubber tyred models here in Australia were different as the Wheels were all made locally. Don't forget that there were a lot of English Loyalists in Ireland particularly in the factory areas who, given the chance, would have painted everything in sight Orange. Best regards Michael.

Stevo · Post by **Stevo** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:07 am

"IT'S THE GREATEST MIX UP THAT YOU HAVE EVER SEEN, MY FATHER HE WAS ORANGE AND MY MOTHER SHE WAS GREEN" (can't remeber the name of the song or singer but seems pretty apt)

Stevo

Eric Schulz · Post by **Eric Schulz** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:31 am

Stevo, the song you refer to was "The orange and the green". You can Google the lyrics.

Michael, I can't say that there never was an orange Cork Fordson if your father had one. What I would suggest is that he had the only one ever painted that colour. I have grown up with Fordsons of that era (I am 69), have read a lot about them, and never have I thought that they were anything but grey. Do you have a photo of that tractor?

Eric

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:17 am

I have seen a few orange ones over here in the states through the years. They were not model F's either, which were gray with red wheels. I cannot tell you if they were Irish or English Fordsons, but they were 1930's vintage. One that I remember in peticular had round spoke rubber wheels and was all orange. Dandy Dave!

Kav · Post by **Kav** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:14 am

Hi Eric and everybody- I'm not far behind you in age Eric I'm 64 and I was three years old when my father sold the Cork Fordson. We lived somewhere near Stevo's area outside Ipswich and sold that farm and the tractor with it in November 1948. The farm we then bought, where we still live had a new E27N on steel wheels. As you know it was the first model with a diff and Bullgears, and these were replaced on the tractor under warranty in about 1950. My father traded it in, in 1951 on another E27N on Rubber Tyres, which I still have. In the last few days I have been looking around at some of the local Fordsons and I am not too sure now whether any of them actually had yellow wheels or it looks like the Orange paint had actually faded to yellow. It is very hard to tell. Best regards - Michael.

Post by **Brian** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:20 pm

(Enter Brian with big wooden spoon to stir the pot)!!

No one seems to have mentioned Yellow Model N's. There is a story going the rounds here that tractors were built for stockpiling in 1938-39. These were all painted bright yellow. I have seen it reported that certain farmers still have their fathers tractors painted in this colour.

Going back to another topic, I am finally in agreement with Eric and Barry that no model "N" had an electric start. The ones that I knew and the one that I have seen must have been built as specials with (possibly) prototype or early E27N engines/blocks. As I said in the original post, the one I knew has gone to that great scrapyard in the sky and has probably been turned into 100 Chinese tractors by now. The other one is in restoration somewhere and it would be great if someone can keep an eye out for it here in England.