Clutch rebuilt but not working

[paudie]

Well guys I got my FMD up and running today , what a great feeling to see her come to life. I had cleaned and loosened the injector pump rack blew air through the vacuum pipes like we discussed .
and with a very small pull we got smoke and away we went ."BUT "I got a ford mechanic to rebuild my live drive clutch which I just bolted in during the rebuild ,but once the tractor was started I could not select any gears .The clutch pedal was pushed to well below the floor board and it just about stopped the tractor but no way could I select a gear . My friendly mechanic reckons I have a std major release bearing and not a live drive one as the live drive one would be longer and engage better and in turn would push the fingers of the clutch . Is this something ye might know about and help with.another suggestion was to shim with washers the clutch basket from the flywheel ?

Ps
I did adjust all the linkages on the clutch petal but no difference.
Paudie

[super6954]

Hi
Sorry to say it Sounds like your ford mechanic might just be a fitter and could be so full of poop you need to find another mechanic . You do not shim the clutch from the flywheel on a dual clutch from what i know. I think you may find a dead drive bearing won't fit the clutch tube and bearing carrier as the gearbox input tube on a live drive is a lot bigger . Chances are somebody didn't set the finger adjustments right on the release arms . There is a fordson tool to do this but good luck finding one, but somebody here did have plans and measurements to make on on here a while ago .
Maybe somebody has machined the old surfaces of the clutch cover to much if machining was done also, and the tolerances are way out. Have never seen it happen on a major. But guys here in Canada machine the daylights out of other clutch covers and they don't work properly.

I had a dual clutch here once, i fitted it used from another tractor, it was a lot of trial and error to get the adjusters right inside, it worked perfect on the other tractor . I split the tractor and adjusted the levers , then pushed it back together. Put 2 bell housing bolts in to hold the tractor together. then set the pedal free play, and dry tested the pedal with the gearbox and pto in gear. when you press the pedal about half way the motor should turn free, then press it right down and the pto should go free. My girlfriend was the pedal pusher, while I turned the motor or pto shaft by hand. I bet she could get your clutch working after the 3 hours she was watching as we messed with that clutch .
Seems like your splitting the tractor and finding out whats wrong sadly
Regards Robert

[paudie]

I have to agree about the mechanic .No machining was done but the amount of travel that I need to get rid of cannot possibly be taken up by adjusting the fingers a few mm I feel / think . The clutch pedal was pressed to the very lowest it could go with the linkages shortened and it just about stopped the tractor .

[super6954]

Hi
If the adjuster screws are original or exact replacements, with a good domed head on, you will be surprised at how far you can adjust them to make a lot of difference. when i did the clutch here. I was using nuts on there edge under the adjuster screws as spacers to try set the heights even, then measuring back to the cover to be sure things were right.

Just another thought here, when you pushed the tractor together, you did turn the motor and pto shaft with the tractor and pto in gear , tractor standing on its back wheels and either turn the pto shaft or lock it steady and turn the motor to line the 2 sets of splines properly when it slid together. if you didn't you could of warped the drive disc and it's dragging badly due to the bent disc. Have seen guys wind the 2 halves together out of line with bolts if the last inch or so won't push closed nice and bend things to.
Does the pto clutch work with the tractor not running, Can you turn the shaft by hand with pto in gear and your assistant pushing the pedal right down . if not both sets of fingers are possibly way out.
Regards Robert

[paudie]

Thanks Robert for your ideas. I will have another go at it tomorrow . The tractor went together reasonably easily we centred the discs with home made tool and lined up the two shafts by turning the crank and the pto gently . It's mad when I 1st tried to start this motor the Inj pump done this weird thing by closing the rack as soon as the engine was turned and it was a mystery which I solved by lots of help and luck.i got the starter rewound and it hardly turned the engine 4 revolutions and the guy who did it said that couldn't be possible . And now I've a clutch with much the same bizarre issues. Patients and time will prevail lol .

[super6954]

Hi
Good luck and hope it works in the end, keep us updated, and ask if your stuck . I know exactly what you mean with luck . I fix tractors for a living . Got one guy brought a used tractor. the hyds started leaking oil. fixed that. went to start it to test that out to make sure. looked down at gauges , whys it not charging , it was when i checked for the leak source . test the alternator, it's blown , The new alternator fixed that. last week he got water frozen in the fuel on 2 tractors, this being one of them. Now he just phoned to say it's leaking water out the thermostat housing. I got 3 more tractors this week being a pain in the @$$ to fix as well. Ever heard the saying should of been shot at birth. Well some tractors should of just been plain scrapped 20 years ago .
Regards Robert

[paudie]

I just got this on the internet ... The parts must be used together and are not individually interchangeable with the previous
I3 in. clutch assembly.
The new cover assembly although of similar design to the previous assembly, is of increased strength and San be identified by three laminations in each spring steel strap, the previous cover assembly having only two laminations in each strap.
The dismantling and assembly procedure which follows also applies to this assembly except where stated in the text.
The new 13 in, diameter clutch disc incorporates thicker organic linings and arcuate cushioning plates. The disc may be identified by an uncompressed thick- ness across the linings of approximately 0.52 in. (13.21 mm.) (early 13 in. diameter discs approxi- mately 0.33 in. (8.38 mm.)). This increased disc thickness necessitates the fitting of spacers between the clutch cover assembly and the flywheel, and longer securing bolts.
The flywheel assembly used with this clutch has longer dowels, approximately 0.47 in. (11.94 mm.) proud of the flywheel face (previous type 13 in. clutch flywheel, dowels approximately 0.27 in. (6.86 mm.) proud) consequently these flywheels are not inter- changeable.
T o obviate any possibility of a foul condition a new clutch release bearing hub of overall length 3.25 in. (82.55 mm.) (previous type 3.5 in. (88.90 mm.) long) and a clutch release rod of length 13.35 in. (339.09 mm.) (previous type 13.54 in. (343.92 mm.) long) between centre of pin hole and end of thread, but with the same length of adjusting thread, must be used with this clutch.

[super6954]

Hi
That info is for a 13 single disc clutch used in some tractors that are non live drive. I have one here somewhere in a pile of parts from a scrap tractor but it is an early without the shims from what I remember. I did also say about not shimming a dual clutch in my post before . This has nothing to do with your double clutch set up as this has 2 ,12 inch discs and is totally different in cover and flywheel design.
Try Googling a 13 inch major clutch and get a picture up . you will see its nothing like yours .
Regards Robert

[paudie]

Thanks Robert , that clears that up. Back to the fingers I guess .

[paudie]

I have my major back in one piece again .I took my original clutch basket back out and examined it ,It seemed that the hinge pins on the clutch fingers were very worn and loose which would have effected the finger adjustment. so i located a different live drive clutch and bolted that In and its perfect although the PTO is whining now FFS !.but hey at least the clutch is fixed . So brakes now to be fixed, I assume as with this tractor they are all totally wrecked also . But hopefully notting weird and unusual . Thanks for the help again

[super6954]

Hi Paudie
Glad you got it working . Didn't your friendly Ford mechanic point this out with the levers when he re built it . if I was doing it here, I would of told you it was worn. Given you the option of replacing it or new parts if available Or at your decision with no warranty what so ever,and you loose all rights to say it was my fault to 40 of your buddy's in the coffee shop put it together it works, no guarantee how long it works or it doesn't .

This then comes under the customers money do what the guy wants, not necessarily what maybe right. Unless it's brakes, or a severe safety issue that I want no part of being involved in . Those guys get to go find another Muppet if they want those kinda jobs done .

Most majors that haven't been restored need brake work of some sort from what I've worked on in the last 25 years. It may just be check parts and adjust, Or Might need new cables, the linings may be scored/ worn out, covered in oil from bad seals. The drums could be bad as well, needing to be skimmed or replaced . quite a few have the springs/ washers missing that hold the shoes to the back plate, and the others rusty or stretched.

The other favorite is the adjusters seized solid to, if all the parts are still attached and the drums grooved with a wear ridge to the inside edge, that can make things real fun to get apart .
Probably what you don't want to hear, But you'll get a nice surprise if anythings better than you thought when you get there .
Sadly in the last 60 odd years of majors there are a lot of high hour tractors out there, That have been driven hard and put away wet n dirty. Without much maintenance in between use .
Regards Robert

[Dandy Dave]

Hi Paudie
Sadly in the last 60 odd years of majors there are a lot of high hour tractors out there, That have been driven hard and put away wet n dirty. Without much maintenance in between use .
Regards Robert

Amen to that! The devil made me do it cried out the poor old dirt farmer... Dandy Dave!

[paudie]

I'm not sure is this the way a forum works if I just keep updating on the one post .but I got the tractor running on her own the new 2nd clutch is perfect the engine is running great and my brakes are working fine so its such a great feeling of accomplishment . NOW the PTO is still whining pretty bad when engaged but as with this tractor when I took it down the road there is also a whine from the axel / gearbox lol could both whines be conected ????

[anthonygos]

Have you check the oil level in the gearbox.

[thestig246]

they normally whine abit, its just the nature of the beast lol