belt pulley - splines

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belt pulley - splines

Postby mathias1 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:47 pm

Can't see what is used to stop leaking by the splines in the parts book:
How is this stopped? Instant gasket or something else?

Image

Image
Last edited by mathias1 on Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby shepp » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:18 pm

From memory there should be an "O" ring behind the splined hub that fits into the end of the pulley - this seals between the pulley and the drive shaft. Withdraw the hub from the pulley and check for the "O" ring behind it in the pulley housing - the threaded holes in the hub can be used for two bolts to extract the hub. Obviously install a new "O" ring on re-assembly.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby shepp » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:10 am

Just checked my parts book and the "O" ring is shown, part number E1ADKN 115103.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby mathias1 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:35 pm

shepp wrote:Just checked my parts book and the "O" ring is shown, part number E1ADKN 115103.


Thanks. this goes between the splined hub and the pulley wheel.
But there's still a gap left in the splined hub, or is this modified?
I also noticed there's still some play between the splined hub and the shaft.
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby shepp » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:16 pm

It's a long time ago since I dismantled a pulley, but I seem to remember that the "O" ring inner surface contacts the unsplined part of the shaft - there is a smooth section for a short distance behind the splines before the shaft diameter steps up a bit and the step gives a shoulder for the "O" ring to seat against. The outer surface contacts the inner bore of the pulley, thus preventing oil getting as far as the splines. I do not remember a gasket between the hub and the pulley, if there was one there it would serve no purpose other than to prevent the ingress of water and dirt between the hub and the pulley.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby henk » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:13 pm

Have to do the pulley job myself now.
The I&T book names the oil seal "grease retainer". is there a difference between an oil seal and a grease retainer?
I have not come across an O-ring or other seal when I dismantled both pulleys. Just a steel washer on one. It was coullered a bit bleu, so it seems it has been heated a bit on duty. The I&T book calls part number 115103 a bushing gasket. Looks like thats something else than an o-ring.
Kind regards, Henk

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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby shepp » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:29 am

Hi Henk

I would say there is no difference in this case between a grease retainer and an oil seal, but it is possibly a narrow oil seal.

Looking at the Fordson parts book alongside the I&T manual paragraph 217 on the belt pulley:

The splined drive hub which fits over the splined shaft and bolts to the pulley with 2 bolts is described as a BUSH in the parts book with part number N-115060-A, in the I&T manual it is described as an ADAPTOR.

The seal between the hub and the pulley is described as a GASKET in the parts book with part number E1ADKN-115103, in the I&T manual it is described as an "O" RING.

Going to the other side of the pulley and the shaft housing bolted to the gearbox, in the end of the housing where the splined shaft comes out we have an item that is described in the parts book as a RETAINER with part number N-115080-B, and in the I&T manual this item is described as an OIL SEAL. Behind this item is the bearing described as such in both books. Although described as a retainer in the parts book on the illustration it does look to have something on the inner diameter making it look like an oil seal (or grease retainer).

It would seem logical that the "RETAINER 115080" or "OIL SEAL" is in fact actually an OIL SEAL or GREASE RETAINER, possibly a thin type seal not the spring loaded type. This would run on the smooth outer diameter of the pulley shaft just before the splines enter the pulley and would prevent oil escaping from the housing and running along the splines that enter the pulley.

I would guess that what you describe as a steel washer which has become heated and blued is in fact this seal or retainer. These seals would be like the "Dowty" washers used in hydraulic applications for sealing high pressure unions - a washer with a narrow rubber strip on the inner diameter. Whether you will be able to find anything similar from the hydraulic people I do not know, but it might be worth trying!

I have a scrap pulley here that I will dismantle out of interest at some point to see what the set up is.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby henk » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:27 pm

Thanks for the comment.
The seal that came out looks different to the spring loaded types. It has a long flap instead of a small one like the regular types.
I wil put a spring loaded oil seal from 90 mm outside, 63,5 mm inside and 13 mm wide.
How I salve the outher seal, I will think about that and wait for your result.
Kind regards, Henk

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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby henk » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:30 pm

I found a paper seal on the spline side. It does not seem to hold any oil, but I think it's uses as a shim.
The ring I was talking about was not at the spline side but between the circlips and the gear on the other side and also used as a shim.

Image

Never seen a circlips like this one. On the Vbelt pulley was a normal one.

Image

This bearing was bad on both pulleys. Seems it's not getting enough oil when the tractor is standing horizontal.

Image

SKF number: 6406
R&M number HJ 30
Kind regards, Henk

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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby Daves rusty bits » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:30 pm

I think your circlip is a snap clip Henk, which basically does the same job as a circlip. I bent one which retains the bearing on the PTO shaft and spent ages straightening it as I couldn`t source a new one. My son tells me they often come with brake fitting kits at his garage and they throw them away as they are not needed.
1960 Power Major, 1975 International 475, 1981 John Deere 2140 - well no ones perfect.
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby mathias1 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:53 pm

henk wrote:Thanks for the comment.
The seal that came out looks different to the spring loaded types. It has a long flap instead of a small one like the regular types.
I wil put a spring loaded oil seal from 90 mm outside, 63,5 mm inside and 13 mm wide.
How I salve the outher seal, I will think about that and wait for your result.


Henk,

better take the imperial size, as that will be a closer fit.

I used 6406 and 6210 bearings. I got them from lagerboer.nl
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby henk » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:47 pm

Ordered the bearing also there. It's the cheapest adres.
Kind regards, Henk

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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby henk » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:09 pm

I did not know Lagerboer is at Biervliet. Could of pick them up today visiting the National Championship ploughing at Biervliet.
Have them now allready in the house by parcel.

https://www.omroepzeeland.nl/nieuws/108 ... Hoofdplaat
Kind regards, Henk

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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby Evos3960 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:15 pm

Hello .
What is an I&T Manual, referred to in the above posts, It seems to be a very interesting thing to have. Where could one of these be got hold of?

Peter
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby shepp » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:36 pm

Hi Peter

The "I & T" range of workshop manuals are composed and printed in the USA by the Technical Publications division of Intertec Publishing Corporation of Kansas.

They are available in the UK and overseas from http://www.tractormanuals.co.uk and the reference for the Major range is FO 201, this latest version of the manual also covers the Dexta range.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby Evos3960 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:53 am

Hello Shepp,

Thank you for filling me in on the technical publication, I recon I'll get after one of those
Many thanks once again,
Peter
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby Evos3960 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:12 am

Hello Henk.

When you replaced the original oil seal with a modern spring loaded type od o/d 90mm, i/d 63.5mm and a thickness of 13mm. was it satisfactory ,did it stop oil leaking.

Kind regards,

Peter
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby Evos3960 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:16 am

Hello lads,
I am really struggling to find the oil seal item no2 on Page 54 of the parts book, part number N-115080-B, could anyone suggest where I might find one of these. The nearest I can get is 88.9mm o/d 63.5mm i/d 12.7mm thick.

Could anyone help me please

Peter
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby Evos3960 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:21 pm

Hello again,
Further to my last post where I asked for help to find an oil seal supplier, I have now found one and Philip who I dealt with was very helpful, he is able to supply me from the original part No (N-115080-N).

They are situated in Burton-upon -Trent in Staffordshire , their website is www.vintagebearings.co.uk and their telephone number is 01283 509 562.

I hope this may help someone.

Peter
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby henk » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:48 pm

Peter,

I'm not so far that I can check that.
Still rebuilding the pulley. I think tomorrow, I will fit the pulley to check the play and see how much sealpaper I need inbetween.
Than when the pulley is put back on the tractor I will put the seal in, to avoide that I have to take of the pulley wheel and damadge the seal.

Today I have milled the spline of my spare pulley. It was verry bad. Welded the theets up and milled it with the help of a gear devider. It was 18 years ago that I had used one.
The result fits niceley.
Kind regards, Henk

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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby henk » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:58 pm

Peter,

Agriline and some other do sell the right seal. just put fordson major pulley seal in google.
https://www.agrilineproducts.com/pto-be ... -seal.html
https://www.waggatractorparts.com/ecomm ... 27-bsl3581
Kind regards, Henk

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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby henk » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:55 pm

The pulley is back on the Major.
Fits real nice with one paper seal of 0,4 mm. Let it run for a while yesterday and check this morning forr oil. It was dry. How it will do on the long term is to be seen.

Have to complete the second one with a V belt pulley. And thats going to be for sale.
Kind regards, Henk

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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby Evos3960 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:34 pm

Hello Henk
very pleased that the replacement seal worked for you.
I am about to fit the new seal on my tractor and I am sure it will be OK, it is of the 1964 type that was fitted in the factory and the seal itself is made of leather rather than neolite so it won't wear the shaft so badly, so I am very confident.

Thank you for posting your experience.

Peter.
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby Evos3960 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:34 pm

Hello

When I start one of my Super np's the belt pulley starts turning even though the selecter is in the neutral position, you can stop it by putting pressure on the pulley wheel but as soon as you take away the braking pressure it starts to spin again, What causes that I wonder.
Could any body clue me up on that please.

Peter
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Re: belt pulley - splines

Postby henk » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:58 pm

Spinning oil in the gearbox makes the wheel go round and round.
Kind regards, Henk

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