frothy water

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frothy water

Postby hazzard » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:11 pm

Has anyone experienced frothy water in their major's radiator water? My 1960 Power has new radiator, it froths up after a bit of light work and spits water out of the overflow. If I take the radiator cap off the water is very frothy. Any clues please?
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Re: frothy water

Postby shepp » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:45 pm

Sounds very much like a blown cylinder head gasket or loose cylinder head bolts which are allowing combustion gases from one or more cylinders into the cooling system and pressurising the coolant - the froth is the escaped gas. You could try checking the cylinder head bolts for tightness, to do this you will need a torque wrench and a sequence chart found in the workshop manual and tighten down the head bolts in the order shown to a torque setting of 85 to 90 lb.ft
This might work, if not you will have to remove the cylinder head and replace the head gasket.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.
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Re: frothy water

Postby hazzard » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:48 pm

shepp wrote:Sounds very much like a blown cylinder head gasket or loose cylinder head bolts which are allowing combustion gases from one or more cylinders into the cooling system and pressurising the coolant - the froth is the escaped gas. You could try checking the cylinder head bolts for tightness, to do this you will need a torque wrench and a sequence chart found in the workshop manual and tighten down the head bolts in the order shown to a torque setting of 85 to 90 lb.ft
This might work, if not you will have to remove the cylinder head and replace the head gasket.

Yes I thought it might be something to do with the head...I shall tighten the head down and see if that fixes it. Thanks.
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Re: frothy water

Postby mathias1 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:51 pm

hazzard wrote:
shepp wrote:Sounds very much like a blown cylinder head gasket or loose cylinder head bolts which are allowing combustion gases from one or more cylinders into the cooling system and pressurising the coolant - the froth is the escaped gas. You could try checking the cylinder head bolts for tightness, to do this you will need a torque wrench and a sequence chart found in the workshop manual and tighten down the head bolts in the order shown to a torque setting of 85 to 90 lb.ft
This might work, if not you will have to remove the cylinder head and replace the head gasket.

Yes I thought it might be something to do with the head...I shall tighten the head down and see if that fixes it. Thanks.
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Re: frothy water

Postby hazzard » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:54 pm

Thanks. :D
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Re: frothy water

Postby Pavel » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:46 am

" Yes I thought it might be something to do with the head...I shall tighten the head down and see if that fixes it. Thanks."[/quote]

But don't forget, Hazzard, to 'crack' [loosen] each fastener a half turn first. And don't loosen the whole lot before re-torque -- do them one at a time.
If you are, hopefully, successful you then have the job of getting rid of the gunk clogging the radiator tubes.
Good luck!
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Re: frothy water

Postby oehrick » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:55 am

Would you do this with the engine hot, warm or cold Pavel ? I tend to do a new gasket warm but that would be with all threads cleaned, I'd probably go for hot with an old gasket and unknown thread condition.
I've often wondered what the difference in actual clamping pressure there might be as the bolt torque is the resistance tor turning, depends on pressure being applied but frictional resistance to turning must vary appreciably between dry and rusted and squeeky clean and lubricated - anyone on the forum know the answer ??

Hope retorquing solves your problem hazzard
Best regards
Rick - Bogside on Bure


1958 Diesel E1A Mk2 s/n 1470165 - still in working clothes
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Re: frothy water

Postby SvendH » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:40 am

Owners manuel says re torque with warm engine .
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Re: frothy water

Postby Pavel » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:44 am

In the old days, Rick,the general practice was to re-torque engines after they were warmed up -- and as SvendH has stated, our good book recommends this.
As far as I recall the reason was that head bolts/studs expanded slightly with heat and therefor fractionally loosen.
But by far the worst problem with bolt fasteners was/is gunge, and/or oil, still retained in the threaded bolt sockets which, therefor, allow false readings. Studs don't have this problem.
Reading a fastener manufacturers 'bible' states that the thread of bolts and studs should be clean and lightly oiled prior to tightening.

Rick; reference your, and others, post some days ago.
As a fifteen year old in the early '50s I remember being taught, and allowed to operate, a petrol Fergie. This, and a couple of others on the farm near Salisbury, had a stater motor operated by the gear lever -- sort of a fifth gear position. Obviously this was a good fail safe against starting whilst in gear.
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Re: frothy water

Postby oehrick » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:53 pm

Yes that is my understanding too Pavel, but how much difference dirty / seized bolts make compared too cleaned and oiled threads I have no idea, 10%, 50%, 100% ??.

In my view the problem is entirely different to torqueing down a newly fitted head since this particular problem involves torquing down what may be last tightened in the 1950's bolts on a possibly fully torqued gasket joint, we know that undoing these bolts presents a reasonable chance of breakage due to seizure so just further tightening gives even more risk of breakage. I think we should be considering taking the bolts out one at a time, following the usual sequence, cleaning and lubing the thread, pulling back down to say 75-80% of full torque then moving to the next one (a long tap to clean the thread in the block would be a handy thing) once all are back in place then follow the sequence to get back to full torque, I would be doing this with the engine hot rather than warm.

Do you think this is overkill ? at a bare minimum the bolts need to be released a couple of turns before retightening !

As for the LGM and it's gearbox safety position for starting, I've often wondered why this was not more widely used, perhaps tractor drivers were more intelligent or the makers considered them disposable! either way the odd reminder that as we get older we tend to get wiser to the risks and more likely to take a chance is useful, like not standing under a raised trailer body or front loader !

Hope your winter is not being too hot or wet :)
Best regards
Rick - Bogside on Bure


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