FSM hydraulics

[RH]

Greetings gentlemen.

I'm new to this site, and thank you for allowing me to participate. You have a wealth of information here!

After 24 years, I again have a Major!.....(Well, two actually!)

The first tractor I ever drove was a 1954 major, which my dad bought in '57 when we still lived in Yorks.
We used that tractor untill we moved to Canada (AB) in 1984, and had to put in new pistons and sleeves twice.
Was still running well when we left.

Recently I had the opportunity to aquire a Major again. I was looking for something with 3 P-hitch for haying and a brush mower, etc, and a FSM turned up.
It was a bit sick, and I've put new rod and main bearings in, plus piston rings and some push-rods (5 were bent) Done valves, & had injectors serviced, so Hope pump is OK!

Whilst scrounging up bits for this one, Another turned up!
Runs like a sewing machine, but jumped out of top in both boxes, and hydraulics don't work.

Fixed the jumping out of gear today, (Selector fork worn away, had a spare one, as one tractor came with a spare gear-box & rear end, etc.)

My Q, if I may, is what do I look for first, to get hydraulics working?

it's a 1961 FSM.

I took out the plug, and opened the valve for secondry hydraulics. Nothing happened, no oil flowing out. (PTO engaged)
Relief valve at front corner under seat is dry. no oil on it.
The small flow-rate valve seems screwed right in, and won't budge.

Is it time to take off the lid?

Thank you in advance for any help, and Please pardon the long post.

Sincerely,
Richard.

[Oscar]

Welcome to the forum, Richard. Glad to have you here. You're a lucky man to find 2 nice Majors!

I'm afraid I can't answer your techie questions, as my knowledge of such things is limited. One of the others here will no doubt be able to help.

By the way, did you search the old forum for info on this problem...? Click here. Quite a lot of hydraulic problems have been discussed there.

Regards,
Oscar

[Brian]

Richard,

Sounds like you have done the obvious. It does sound like you will have to take the top off. Be careful, its heavy and the control valve, thing with a trumpet fitted, is below the lift housing. I have seen these bent by the lift being rested on them. A new valve would be very hard to find.

With the lift removed, operate the starter and see if you get oil from the pressure pipe. (Old mechanics test: Hold your thumb over the end and see if you can spray your mate. This should give you a rough idea if the pump is pumping). Then check that the valves are working in and out. The control valve can stick.

If valves stuck, carefully free them off. Precision parts and can be damaged easily. DO NOT USE ANY FORM OF ABRASIVE PAPER to clean off rust. Brasso is best.

If the control valve is free. Draw the plug immediately over the valve and remove the unload valve. See post on here. Tap the unload valve out from the rear with an aluminium punch gently and polish with Brasso. There may be a piston ring type seal on this or an "O" ring. If it has an "O" ring it is best to get the Ford one if possible as it has to be a very good fit.

When you have done this, look in the Wiki section of the board for setting procedures.

[RH]

Thank you for the warm welcome Oscar.

I have been reading past posts, but find I get side-tracked reading other interesting things, and forget what I was looking for!

Brian,
Thank you for your reply and suggestions, I will check this out ASAP, and get back to you with the results.

Re. the cover being heavy, we found this out already!
The parts tractor I purchased in the deal had the cover, and was at bottom of a wet slippery hill. (too wet to drive down)
We took cover off and brought it home....fingers were creaking by time we got to the truck with it!
Didn't hurt valve, so I may have a spare if needed.
Hope to get the rest home, when it dries up a bit.
(We covered things up, to keep wet out.)

Should be sowing barley and oats, but its rained for a week.....

Thank you again,

Richard.

[Brian]

Richard,

One of the problems with the Super lift is that each part is very finely machined. Don't think that, even if you have a part, it will fit because it won't. When servicing the lifts we used to draw out of stores perhaps five or six valves to find one to fit properly.

If you should have a problem, fit the complete spare cylinder.

[RH]

Thanks for the additional info Brian.

Took cover off this afternoon, and there's oil pressure in pipe, so pump's working.

Relief valve in cover was stuck, but stuck "in" not out so don't suppose that was the problem.
Will have a look at the control valve next........then unload valve as you suggest!

I'll keep you posted on results, and thank you again for all your help.

Best wishes,
R.

[RH]

Brian,

The control valve moves in and out OK when I move the lever up and down, or the draught control to position control.
Does this mean the control valve is OK?

If so, is the unload valve the one held in by the same cap and screws as the control valve?
Can't seem to find a pic of it.

The small flow-rate valve is right in, and will not move at all. Could this prevent hydraulics working? On the other FSM, this valve housing will rock back and forth on the pivot. this one only moves a very small amount.

Thanks again for any help, Brian.

Richard.

[Brian]

Richard,
Its the unload valve then. Draw the plug and carefully tap the valve out from the rear if its stuck. Emphasis on "draw"!

The flow valve is stuck in the fast position and will give you no problem unless you intend to do a lot of ploughing/deep cultivations.

[RH]

Brian,

Drew out the plug for the unload valve, and went to push the valve out with a piece of dowel, and it just slid out very easily.
'O' ring looked good. valve nice & clean.
Could problem be a different valve?

control valve pushes in OK against spring pressure so I think it's OK.
If not too much trouble, what should I look at next?

Thanks Brian.

Richard.

PS, Took flow-rate fitting off & got it freed off, so it'll turn in and out nicely now.

[Brian]

Do you have a pipe down to the hydraulic pump with a silver filter on it? it will be either fixed to the pressure pipe with a small bracket or fixed to one of the pump mounting bolts.

This is the return pipe and filter and should have a little valve on the bottom. The valve keeps the pressure in the system at 12 psi and this is what works the unload valve.

Other than that, are the little "broken spring washers" around the pressure pipe? Is the "O" ring in good condition?

If you have oil flow and a little pressure from the pump the lift should work. You say you pushed the unload valve with a piece of dowel. Is it a fairly loose fit in its sleeve?

If all answers are yes, then put the lift back on with just two bolts at the front and see what happens. You have checked all the main valves in the lift, there is one ball valve behind the plug immediatly under the Aux Service plate. That is held in place in a little housing with a spring. It should not affect your lifting but it might be worth a look. It is out of circuit when you pull the Aux. service spool out.

[RH]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your patience with this!

pipe looks OK, and just put in new filter. (bracket mount on pressure pipe)
Collars are on pressure pipe, and 'O' ring is ok. (Don't have new one this size)
Unload valve runs back and forth smoothly,rather than loosly, but no rough or binding spots.

Will put her back together as you suggest, but I found when I removed plate to clean filter screen, that plate is in two pieces. (No wonder leaking a bit!)
Must have been frost, as there was quite a bit of water in oil.
Thought I'd use plate from other one I'm working on, but when I washed it, it too is cracked full width.
Tried gobbing it up with silicone, and tried it, but with a few gallons of oil in, it's started to weep.

first order of business, find/mend 2 plates!

Will keep you posted, and Thank you again.

Richard.

[RH]

Hi Brian

Here's an update;
A pal kindly brazed the broken plate for me and it's working well, no leaks.
This eve, (Rained off again! Still no crop planted!) put cover back on .
could see oil circulating by looking down filler plug. Hydraluics still not working.
Opened auxiliary plug, Nothin' doing.
loosened relief valve,...oil running out.

Seemed to have oil right up to flow control etc, but no further.

Swapped flow control and selector valve assembly, for the one on the other tractor, and Hydraulics worked right away!!!

Problem seems to be in the selector assembly somewhere.

Will have to pull the guts out of it and check it all out, but at least this one is working!!

Am very pleased that we're through most of the big problems, and only need to change engine oil, & fix a rad, hose & we'll be in business!!

Just wanted to let you know we're getting there, Brian.

Best wishes,

Richard.

[Brian]

Interesting Richard.

You said you had no oil to the PR Valve and that is before the flow control valve in the circuit.

The only thing that could give you a problem in the service plate is the selector itself as that can cause lift dropping if worn or no lift if it does not move to open the ports to either cylinder or externals. but in that case you would hear the PR blowing off.

The plate must have an internal leak between pressure and return before the valves in the plate and lift. A pretty rare occurance. Glad you found it.

[RH]

Hi Brian,
The oil was running out the PR valve when I cracked it loose.

Don't know what was up with it, but at least it's now working.

BTW,
On the tractor I borrowed the service plate from, there was no gasget between service plate and the top it fits up to. Should there be?
I put it on this way, with no gasget & it doesn't leak.
There was a gasget on the old not-working service plate.
Which way should it be?

Thanks again, Brian.

All the best,

Richard.

[Brian]

Should have a thin paper gasket. Should be alright if it is not leaking though.