E1A Engines/592E indust engine - governor and differences

[agoose]

Hi

does anyone have an idea of the approx value of the E1A engine (E1ADDN), which was fitted to the Fordson majors? I think the were at least fitted to the Super and power majors. Maybe earlier?

I have one in very good condition. Mine was built in 1966 - date stamp on block.

It is the industrial variant, which as far as I know is the same as the engines, which went into the tractors (please correct me if I am wrong).

The industrial variant had a decompression lever on the rocker cover (has been removed on mine - don't think engines, which went into tractors had this? ).

It has the 'FL' head and the Simms minimec pump. It does NOT have the pneumatic govenor or the throttle rod running through the block.

It also has more vanes on the fan (6) than on tractor models, which I think only had two(?)

[brownsmule]

Howdy
Ya got my interest. What is the location of the engine? How much do you want for it?
Thanks
brownsmule

[Dandy Dave]

Nice find. The Tractors did have the decompression lever. I think some of the last Super Majors did have the mechanical governor. Yes, the tractor varient has a fan with two blades. I'm fairly sure that the basic engine will interchange with the tractor. Brian I'm sure will know more about the differences. Dandy Dave!

[agoose]

Howdy
Ya got my interest. What is the location of the engine? How much do you want for it?
Thanks
brownsmule

I am afraid, judging from your address that I am on the other side of the Atlantic from you in Europe . Of course if you want to pay for shipping...

Nice find. The Tractors did have the decompression lever. I think some of the last Super Majors did have the mechanical governor. Yes, the tractor varient has a fan with two blades. I'm fairly sure that the basic engine will interchange with the tractor. Brian I'm sure will know more about the differences. Dandy Dave!

Then were all of the other Majors fitted with the engine with the pneumatic Gov and throttle through the block or was there yet another engine variation other than the engine in the pics above and the one with the pneu gov?

Forgive this question Do the pictures above show the mech gov or is it internal to the pump? Or is it non existant on the industrial version?

Can anyone give me a rough value on the engine in UK pounds or Euro? (You can PM me with a rough value, if you prefer)

[Brian]

That is not a 1966 engine, I would think it is an earlier version that has been fitted with a new block if you have a 1966 date code. The engine was available from Ebro after 1964 as a replacement unit but I do not think it is one of those.

By 1966 the industrial engines would have been the 2700 series which has the injection pump mounted on the timing cover back plate.

It has the industrial mechanical governor coupled to the earlier version of the injection pump. I would suspect it is either a 1960 or earlier version. I do not see a breather on the timing cover but that may not mean anything being an industrial unit.

Yes it would drop straight in to any of the Major range from 1952 to 1964 with a few changes like the sump and the injection pump. The industrial pumps were designed for constant revs and constant load so would not be as good for agriculture.

I want the fan!!!! All Petrol Dextas in Australia were fitted with a similar fan to aid cooling in hot countries.

[Dandy Dave]

Did you guys also notice the different starter? Looks like it would interchange, and work with some wiring changes, but it is not at all like the tractor version. Dandy Dave!

[agoose]

That is not a 1966 engine, I would think it is an earlier version that has been fitted with a new block if you have a 1966 date code. The engine was available from Ebro after 1964 as a replacement unit but I do not think it is one of those.

By 1966 the industrial engines would have been the 2700 series which has the injection pump mounted on the timing cover back plate.

On the rhs of the engine (looking from the front) there is what I presume to be a date stamp. It states 20 6 66

I have had this engine since about 1991. It came out of a Petbow welder. I doubt very much if the block was changed. The whole engine is in that red colour as was the canopy of the welder from which it was removed. I think that was the Petbow brand colour.

Also, I spoke to a man who has one (all in yellow) and it is marked 2 4 66. It is also not likely that the block was swapped on that one either.
Could it be that some where produced in an end production phase or for some other reason? maybe some blocks were cast to build engines in order to use up parts already cast or which were in stock?

As it has the FL head, this should date it after 1962, shouldn't it?

It has the industrial mechanical governor coupled to the earlier version of the injection pump. I would suspect it is either a 1960 or earlier version. I do not see a breather on the timing cover but that may not mean anything being an industrial unit.

forgive my ignorance but is that the governor between the throttle arm and the main body of the pump where it says Simms?

How do you know if it is the earlier version of the pump? Is it a Simms Minimec pump?

Where should the breather pipe extrude from?

There is a what I assume to be a breather extruding from the side of the block.That is the rubber hose you see in pic 1 pointing out of the bttom of the engine. The hose is attached to a small elbow coming out of the block behind the fuel filter. will try and get a pic.

Yes it would drop straight in to any of the Major range from 1952 to 1964 with a few changes like the sump and the injection pump. The industrial pumps were designed for constant revs and constant load so would not be as good for agriculture.

What is the difference in the sumps?

Wll try and post a pic later.

[Brian]

These were the years of change at Fords.

The whole tractor and tractor engine production line was shut down and cleared from the factory at the end of 1964 and was move to Ebro in Spain . Dagenham became a purely car production plant and Basildon was producing the "X" series from 1964. As far as I know, industrial engines were tractor based and made on the same line as the tractor engines.

A Ford dealer at Potters Bar started to bring complete engines into the country as replacements/new engines, but Ford was not happy. Ford used blocks from Ebro to satisfy spare parts demand as the Super Major worked out its life. It is possible that this engine is one of those that came from Perrys, with a 1966 date stamp. Some of the best quality E1A engine spares come from Spain today.

The pump is not a Minimec, it is the older style pump with an industrial governor mounted in the housing at the back. The industrial pump is a different shape and size. The Minimec has a smaller and differently shaped side cover.



This is the "GM" mecanical governor from 1959 which looks more like yours.



You are right that the "FL" head started in 1962 so that should mean it is a late engine.

On an "agricultural" spec engine, there is a breather on the timing cover at the front and a pipe from the valve cover to the aircleaner. This pipe is not on your engine but you can see a shaped area on the valve cover where it is normally drilled and welded. The fact that you have no breather or pipe is not important, it is just a different spec. your breather is from the tappet cover behind the pump.

On a tractor, the sump forms part of the load bearing frame. It is made of cast steel and has a fitting for the axle support frame, (or "A" frame/wishbone) as part of its structure. You have a straight alumiumum pan which just holds oil on your engine.

The starter is an industrial/truck type pre-engaged by solenoid type whereas the tractor starter was pre-engaged by a hand lever which then switched the solenoid. In the application it was used in this would possibly have been operated by a key start switch.

These engines found their way into many applications with many manufacturers and, as a welder requires a constant speed and the "GM" pump operates at one of three speed ranges, 500 to 1500 rpm, 500 to 1800 rpm and 500 to 2500 rpm it is possible that the welder manufacturer found one of these more suitable and used the earlier pump. Combine harvesters with Ford engines came with the same governers.

[agoose]

I am the original poster and I am coming back to this thread albeit a year and half (ish) later - hope that is ok.

Today, I returned to looking at the ford 592E industrial engine and as noted from the previous poster's post, it has indeed a GM governor fitted

It is stamped GMVA 750900 AS1

So, from reading the literature in the last post it has a maximum rev of EITHER 1500 rpm or 1800 rpm

So my questions in relation to the governor:

1) I take it there is actually only one governor 'model' for both speeds but the max rpm screw is just set different - correct?

2) Can the max screw only be set for EITHER 1500 or 1800 (Literature in above post seems to suggest so) or can it also be set for something in between?

2) How do I know which one I have i.e. 1500 or 1800


Other questions

I note the differences between the 592E and the Major tractor engine

However, I have heard that there are also the following differences - could someone verify or deny?

A) the housing on the 592E which attaches to the gearbox is different from that of the tractor engine (different shape? Boltholes different?)

B) I have heard that a 'front mounting plate' has to be fitted to the 592E in order to get it to fit in the tractor - true? if so, what is this exactly? Do they mean the different sump, which is on the tractor engines and attaches via an A frame to the axle?

regards

[super6954]

Hi
I know nothing about the govenor except that the industrial may not have the auto timing advance mechanism that a regular tractor super major minimec pump does and it will probably rev higher. I don't see why you can't alter the rpms a bit. To tell what it's doing you will need to use a tacho of some sort to clock motor rpm.
Basically not having the auto advance means the power will be at flat out rpm's . with a tractor the timing alters in the pump as the rpms change so you get power all the way through the rev range.

The bell housing pattern on the top of the block is the same as the tractor, The bottom on the sump is wrong so the bolts don't line up right. on the industrial the pattern is round, on the tractor it is more oval.

To put this motor in a tractor properly you have to swap the sump to a mk 2 or later super sump depending what tractor it goes in, power/MK2 major has a smaller rear A frame pin than a super. This motor should have the later oil pump with the pressure relief on the oil pump. The early type is in the timing case and the early oil pan won't fit the later style oil pump motor. it's not deep enough at the front where the pump is.

The front plate doesn't have the right mountings on it for the frame rails. when you look at pictures of a major from the side, you will see 3 bolts in a kinda triangle shape 3/4 of the way along towards the front. There is an angle piece on the timing plate sides just under the timing case. Thats part of that plate you don't have to mount on the inside of both rails. This Timing case back plate is what guys are saying you also need to change or modify.
My 6 is modified and I want to change the plate so it looks more original instead of welded on brackets. There are a couple of different types of those plates. I know you will need one from a MK 2 or newer as this is part linked to the oil pressure relief location I talked of before. Mk 1 plates have the valve in the timing case.
Sorry I don't have pictures to show you of this stuff But I hope you can make sense of it, or maybe someone else will post some.
Regards Robert

[agoose]

Thanks for the reply.

I did not understand all of it yet.

I will print it out and consider the various points you make whilst physically looking at the engine

Is the auto advance part of the pump or the governor?

[thestig246]

not sure if this is true, but ive been told that apparently a landrover series 2 or 3 starter motor will bolt stright onto a major, only it has the soleniod on the starter itself like that one