A "Major" sleeve problem

[Kim]

The major I have now in my yard sat for 25 yrs elsewhere and when I finally got around to pulling it down, a unique (to me) problem appeared. When the engine was stopped, #2 & 3 were at top dead center and #1 & 4 at the bottom. I removed the sump and big end caps but can't budge the pistons in either direction. Murphy and his law were working overtime to stick the crankshaft in that position! I've had penetrating oils soaking in there for months but I can't drive them down and when I tried a jack from underneath, it lifted the tractor! I will order a sleeving kit from Agriline but can't figure out how to get the sleeves and pistons out. I want to do it in place as removing the loader is an immense pain in the tookus. All I really need to save is the connecting rods; the pistons and sleeves are junk anyway. Suggestions please, on how best to proceed.

[super6954]

Hi Kim
I had an e27n that was stuck and new type Majors as well.
I put a heavy steel pipe the same diameter as the bore and about 8" or so long in a cylinder that was at top dead then put a thick steel plate on that, then sat a 20 ton jack the right way up on top, then a heavy tow type chain round the block and jack( I had a channel with a pipe welded on the bottom to fit the jack top and stop the chain jumping out under tension).

I used the jack as a press to push the piston down and turn the crank,
I think that if you can get movement and maybe keep working it back and forth you could get it to turn then you might be lucky and get the rods out with the piston still in the sleeve as it might pop them up . I have had them out before like that and then split the sleeve with a grinder to get the rod out of the piston.

The other thing is to remove all the rust down to the piston crown with a wire wheel on a drill and emery cloth and it may totally free up too doing that and jacking .

with the forces involved you got to go carefull and watch close whats happening or not happening. also make sure the chain has a block of wood under neath to spread the load on the block oil pan face to stop it breaking the flanges off or do it with the oil pan on thats how i did the E27n one .
I'm kinda glad you don't know where I live cause if you try it and wreck something you cant come looking for me
Just a small edit added here if you do the jack method put the caps back as if not you could spread the rod ends
Good luck
Regards Robert

[AdrianNPMajor]

Heat always helps, as I'm sure you know. Bit tricky getting the heat to the right spot though to break the bond where the rusted up rings meet the liner walls.

Regards

Adrian

[super6954]

HI kim
Just had a thought while i was out in the shop doing a boring not much thinking needed job Have you taken any of the main caps off to see what the shells are like and if the cranks grooved or scored you have rod caps off are those bearings showing copper or scores or re grind shells like 10 , 20 or 30 thou stamped on the shell back , if so i you may find it needs the crank grinding and the motor has to come out anyway. probably the rear seal will leak to after all this time sitting. So in the end you may just be better pulling the motor and re building it right the first go as you probably don't know why it was parked in the first place.
What year is it too as there is a change in wrist pin size and on the later majors the sleeves are different . some had 1 seal ring at bottom and the later supers had 2 rings one top and one bottom, so you need too know these things before ordering parts
Regards Robert

[Pascal]

Hi,

When I removed the sleeves of my 590e, which had been out of any cooling fluid for many (30?) years, I filled the cooling fluid part with Diesel
for a few weeks. I tried to remove a much as rust as I could with a little magnet.
I pulled out the sleeves with the sleeve puller on the right. I believe it's an M20 or M24 "bolt".



Together with a Bahco of 1 meter it went pretty fine. Only number 6 (closest to the clutch) needed a bit more TLC: a one meter steele pipe on the Bahco..
But than it came loose.

May be it's of any help?
Good luck!

[Kim]

The journals and bearings are PERFECT so I don't want to muck with them at all. It's a May 1957 Major with 1-3/8 big ends but I don't know what the sealing is on the bottom of the sleeves. It was parked outdoors with the muffler off of it for a winter and water got in so it was left all those years ago.I thought about the seals but I REALLY don't want to pull that engine if I can help it. The loader and frame are very heavy duty with a front mounted pump for the loader and backhoe. Pulling the sleeves would not be difficult if only I can get those blessed pistons out. It has occurred to me that if I can heat up the two end sleeves with a torch and drop dry ice on the piston top while jacking from the bottom I might get lucky. Trouble is I have to do this outdoors and as they say at Winterfell, "Winter is coming". If I can't get it in the next few weeks, it'll become a spring project. I suppose soaking for a few more months won't hurt. Thank you all for the comments and suggestions.

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Kim,

A trick I have used recently that worked real well was to fill about 200 ml of 50% old sump oil and 50% petrol into the stuck cylinders and set fire to it. I did this after I removed as much rust from the top of the cylinders as possible. After setting the fire about 3 times the rusted in pistons let go.This was done on a perkins P6 that had been sitting with so much water in it for so long there is now a permanent water line in the intake manifold.

I had rebuilt a P6 earlier that was in a similar state and that took 3 months to un stick. This method took 30 minutes and I am sure this engine was worse than the first one.

To get a feel for how much petrol to put in I started with a 90% oil 10% petrol mix first off and worked up from there. I also made sure I had the fire extinguisher handy and that the area was clear of other flamable items. Watching the mix burn seemed to show that the petrol was boiling out of the oil which seemed to slow the flame down enough to get a good amount of heat into the oil and the cylinders.

I will always try this method first now. Just make sure you are safe, petrol and fire normally don't mix well.

Regards, Frank.

[Kim]

That seems like one heck of an idea that I will definitely keep in mind but I'll have to move it well away from my barn before I try it! Thanks and I hope you have a great summer.

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Kim,

You could always just wheel it out and set it alight to keep warm during the winter

I found a picture I took from when I did the deed. I honestly did not expect it to work, but I had seen it mentioned on the net once or twice and I thought I would give it a go.



Regards, Frank.

[Kim]

Thanks Frank. I assume you wait for the fire to go out as I have to try driving from underneath and flaming oil coming down would be a bit more medieval than I care for! Maybe I could get my wife under there............

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Kim,

Yes you do wait for the fire to go out. I found that the oil itself tended not to burn, just get hot. To crack the engine free I just used a tyre lever on the starter ring gear, I didn't even have the sump off at the time as I fully expected to be at it for months.

Regards, Frank.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Remember that Michael Caine quote from The Italian Job? "You're only supposed to blow the bl**dy doors off!"

Joking aside, nice one Frank!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_PX1cVuaVA

[Dandy Dave]

Kim, I take it that the old block of hardwood on the piston and hammer has not worked for you? Or have you not tried it? The harmonics of viberation has a lot to do with getting stuck pistons out of the way so that the sleeves can be removed with a sleeve remover. Dandy Dave!

[Kim]

Hi Dave! I hope the gathering in Kent went off well a couple weeks ago; I couldn't make it this year. If the crank was even a few degrees off of "6 and 12" I think the hammering on a block would have worked enough to get it to budge. I like the idea of firing the cylinders but have to wait for the right time to try it. #2 & 3 will have to come out first. The only thing I can say is, I WILL get them out!

[Dandy Dave]

Yes. Kent, CT. USA. I was there running the old 1928 Hanson power shovel and the 1930 Bay City 1/2 swing again this year. Had a good time. Sorry you could not make it Kim. Brought a 1949 Allis B with me to sell but no takers. Rusty but runs and drives. Dandy Dave!

[Dons62FSM]

When your crankshaft is in a straight up and down position you can still effectively drive on the up pistons if you keep turning tension on the crankshaft. The crankshaft puts maximum force on the pistons in that position.

I heard of one person who used a cutting torch to cut the rods free and then dealt with each piston/cylinder separately.

[Nick]

Hi all, I found that wood was too soft to drive seized pistons, so I found a bump stop off an old lorry, which is made out of VERY tough plastic, almost composite. It is brilliant at this, its not as hard as metal so you wont break anything, and its harder than wood. I got my mate to hold it whilst i gave it a whack with a large sledge hammer, as soon as I got a decent swing on it, the engine moved. Ive now freed four engines off easily using this method.