62 fordson power major

[Livewire84]

I am about to give up. I need some ideas.
I have a 62 fordson new performance power major..or whatever this frankenstein is called, with the white hood and says ford 5000 on it.
The 3 point lift hydraulics will only lift a 1000 pounds at 3/4 throttle.
I am getting 300 psi idling and no more, It will build up to 1100 psi if I rev the engine to 3/4 throttle.
I pulled the lid today, and replaced the ram piston oring, and it will lift the load at 3/4 /throttle, and then with engine off hold 600 psi for several minutes.
When i pulled the lid, I checked the unloading valve and it is very smooth, with new oring on. I replaced the return filter, with back pressure valve attached, and cleaned the intake filter underneath that feeds the hydraulic pump.
I did notice that the control valve ( thing with the trumpet looking piece of metal ) has zero orings on it. I am not sure if thats the way it is supposed to be.
I also shimmed the pressure relief valve in the chest lid with one penny, and then another. No matter 1 or 2 pennies, I can only attain 1100 psi total. I also pulled the check valve and to my knowledge everything looks good to me.
I did notice after I got it all back together there is a bit of pump growl when trying to lift a implement at idle, I am guessing that wouldn't cause my problem though, would it ?
As a final test, after all that proved pointless, I removed the auxiliary block. I turned the engine over at starter speed and oil came out one hole and I could not stop the flow with my thumb. It shot everywhere !
What am I missing ?
Did I majorly screw up by not pulling the pump feed to chest lid pipe ? Should I pull it apart again and try to re oring the pump itself, or isn it even possible ?
Thanks for any suggestions.

[SvendH]

The oil squirting when aux block is off is for a loader,log splitter etc controled by the slide-valve in the aux bl (normal).
If the lift is attached to something heavy enough,the front wheels should become airborne when the lifthandle is raised no matter what the engine revs.
The controlvalve is precisly fitted and should not have O-rings
In the Aux block the is an ajuster screw for lift-action,it should be in the fully "in" pos for fast liftwork.
If the lift-pump is worn,it could help if you used a thicker oil.What weight are you using?
Are the lift control linkage rods and bushings free to move(not seized) and properly ajusted?

[SvendH]

-Are the cross-shaft arms correktly installed and in good condtion aswell as the other arms and linkrods,and is everything assembled correcktly?
Noise from the pump should indicate it is "making an effort".
What happens if you turn off the engine with the lift raised and something on it? If it stays up awhile your lack of lift-power should then be pump-related,and not caused by leaks in the topcover assy.

[henk]

This might help a bit: http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... =lift+pump
Have you checked the oil level in the rearend?
Could be a broken o-ring in the pump as in the picture. To check this you need to remove the complete lift cover of the rear end.

[oehrick]

If you connect a pressure gauge to the trailer lift coupling or pipework this will give an indication of what pressure is being developed - I'm not familiar with the NPM but there may be some other point a gauge can be attached.

[Livewire84]

I attached the gauge to the auxiliary block.
I have a plain block without any flow control or anything.
I did not remove any lift rods or mess with any of the setting for the lift, when i removed the top, but that doesnt mean someone before me did or didn't.
All the linkages seem to be free and I took the unload valve out and made sure it moves freely.
Still same problem.
The hydraulics weren't working correctly when i got the tractor.
It will hold 600 psi roughly when i turn the tractor off with a 1000 pound set of disc attached.
I am using 15-40 motor oil.
Oil is new and full.
I am thinking about trying to pull the pump and put orings in it, like the picture shows, and address the feed pipe at the same time.
Sounds to me, with what you said, it appears the problem is in the pump. Am i correct ?

[henk]

If the o-ring in the pump under the red arrow is broken it means you have to shim your gearwheels inside the pump.

[Livewire84]

Taking the pump apart and replacing the oring is ok, but shimming gear wheels and knowing how to correctly do it. Is beyond my expertise level.
This is my first time really digging into hydraulics.
Any advice or just buy a new pump ?

[SvendH]

Before you buy another pump remove and dismantle the old one.
Check for obvious signs of wear and scoring on the internals"-plastigague" (cheap) can be used to dertimine the exact tolleraces .
A new pump is not cheap.

[henk]

Shimming is no big deal. When you need to do it let us know. We help you through. Just like we always do on this board.

[Livewire84]

I am getting ready to pull the lid and drain it down, and pull the feed pipe and pump.
Thank you very much for the offer to walk me through the shimming, and all the past madness, for that matter !
Thanks again, the information given on here is priceless.

[Livewire84]

I got it all put back together again and I am going to try to lift something with it tomorrow.
I found one of the two orings in the hydraulic pump were blown. 1/3 of the oring was completely missing !!!
I could see absolutely no visible signs of wear in the pump, which I was expecting to find.
My pump orings look completely different than the picture posted. My pump has 2 flat orings that were in the shape of mickey mouse ears, for a lack of better explanation.. lol
I cleaned the sump filter again and replaced the oring on the pressure pipe at the pump, even though the old one looked good.
My problems started with the tractor lifting a set of heavy disc, but wouldn't let them down. My father-in-law revved the engine and jammed the lift ( position control ) handle up and down quickly and raised and lowered the position/draft control handle, trying to make whatever what stuck.... unstick. Well I think when the disc fell to the ground, it was because my unloader valve was stuck, and the pressure blew the oring in the pump ( luckily didn't split the pump ).
The unloader valve oring had a flat spot ( blown ) on it, and I have since replaced the oring and made sure the valve slides freely in the bore.
Thats my theory anyway. We will see if the theory is good or bad tomorrow.
Thanks again for all the help, and I will post back tomorrow with the results.

[henk]

Did you take any pictures to show us?

Good luck with testing.

[Livewire84]

I will take some pictures tomorrow, if I get a chance of the tractor, but being a big dummy, I never thought to take a picture of the blown oring in the pump !
It was a success !
The oring in the pump was apparently the problem.
I was able to lift that same set of disc at idle no problem, and hooked to a 3 bottom plow and pulled it for about 1 hour to give the tractor a good shake down run.
It did well, although the front end is not heavy enough yet .. lol
I am very pleased with the torque this tractor makes for its size.
The issue I can't seem to solve is the hydraulic psi gauge is plumbed into the top of the cover plate, where a set of remote hydraulics would mount. At idle it will lift the load, but the gauge only reads 1000psi. If i raise the rpm, I can watch the relief valve open and the gauge will climb to 1000psi, and then the pressure will sharply drop off to around 800.
I shimmed the relief valve with 1 penny and it made no difference, so I added another penny and still no difference.
The pressure climbs to 1000psi and reliefs to around 800psi, no matter the shims, so I removed them all.
Is this normal ?
Would I get a totally different gauge reading if I plumbed the gauge to the tipping pipe plug, in the side of the top cover ?
Thanks for all yalls help.

[henk]

Did you put the gauge at this place?



Or did you put it at the right side Sorry no picture of that.

[Livewire84]

No, I have a totally different looking top.
I cannot figure out how to upload a picture from my phone to this discussion. Any idea's ?

[henk]

You have the Super lift cover. Did not realise that. Your pump is different to I assume.

For pictures: How to do is on top of every board: http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... f=2&t=5024

You have to put your phone pictures on a third site like photo bucket or something.

[Livewire84]

I apologize. i am learning to edit the photo to fit correctly still. This is a picture of my lift cover. The red arrow points to where my pressure gauge is plumbed now,and can only achieve 1100psi. I think I should plumb it to where the white arrow is pointed. I have shimmed the relief valve ( yellow arrow ) with zero rise in pressure. The green arrow is my check valve I assume, which seems to be working correctly.

[Livewire84]

one thing that did catch my eye is that the relief valve tip has a groove in it, which I am not sure is supposed to be there. It almost seems like wear similar to a needle and seat in a carburetor. Is this normal or could this be causing my pressure issue. Should I try to use some grinding paste and mate the two surfaces of the tip and the seat back together smooth, or are they available to purchase new ?

[Livewire84]

.
finally a half way decent resized image to show what the old girl looks like, when I started working on it..... lol
sorry about screwing the pictures up. The posted sticky about photo bucket makes it look easy, but the version I downloaded looks nothing like the pictures posted of photo bucket and all the resize options are different. I am learning as I go what works and what does not.

[henk]

The Super (NP) man has to help you with this one.
Your doing well with the pictures.

[Livewire84]

The code for the engine is a 1962.
The hood and all seem to match the new performance version.
The hydraulic top cover seems to not match the rest of the tractor, but rather a power major, I think.
The top link vs the top link cam ( don't know what its actually called ) looks looks a little suspicious to me as well.
Who knows what all is original or has been changed over all the years to keep it going.... lol

[JC]

You're doing a good job of posting pictures. I wrote that sticky a long time ago and Photo Bucket has changed a lot since then. I just looked at the picture of your top cover and it is the right one for a Super Major.

[Livewire84]

Thank you all for your help, and with the identification.
The tractor seems to be working well. I did a little grading with a box blade today, and the hydraulics seem to be holding up very well.
One last thing. I would like to check for proper hydraulic pressure. I noted in one of the pics above, where I pumbed my gauge, and that I could only achieve 1100 psi.
Would plumbing it in a different spot achieve a different reading ?
Reason I ask, I am deciding whether to add a set of remote hydraulics to the tractor for a set of pull behind disc that have to be raised and lowered with hydraulics, and thats where I think I would get the pressure from. Meaning the place I have the gauge plumbed now. I can be a bit anal about double checking pressures to be in spec and silly stuff some times.
Sould I try to achieve a true hydraulic reading and make sure I am pumping around 2200psi, or just leave well enough alone, and as long as they work, run it !
Thanks again for all yalls help and input. I definitely would not have the tractor back up and running without your help !!

[JC]

I have a trouble shooting guide for Super Major hydraulics somewhere. When I have a little more time, I'll find it and post it. For now, if your Super Major does everything that you want it to do, and the oil level is correct, just run it!