pto gear engagement

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pto gear engagement

Postby terry274 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:04 am

I am still trying to sort out my pto lever problem. With the pto lever in the center groove the gear is just barely engaged. But the gear will bottom out into the pump gear before the lever gets to the last groove. I read the manual and I am installing the fork offset downward as the manual instructed. Also, the manual states to put the lever in the center position when I re-install the housing to the tractor. Since the manual instructed me to have the lever disengaged when I removed it, does this mean the center groove is the disengaged groove? If so, my pto gear shaft and sleeve assembly (dog clutch) would seem to be to long, as it is engaged in the center groove. The gear seems to be in good condition as well as the grooves, ball and spring. I am going to try to post a couple of pictures to help explain what I am trying to describe.
Image
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Postby Mervyn Spencer » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:38 am

Hi Terry

Maybe a silly question, is it not perhaps the lever that is slightly off or the grove that the cotter pin slides into warn and as a result you are not able to get it quite square on? I am presently looking at my set up which is loose and can't really see how yours should not square up. I'm sure one of the more qualified members may have a solution for you. Good luck for quick solution.

Kind regards
Mervyn
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Postby Brian » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:42 am

I am not in a position to check one out at the moment but according to the parts book there have been no changes to the PTO selectors since the tractor introduction in 1957. I do not understand why there are three positions at the moment.

Sorry to not be able to answer the problem yet but I am working on it.
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Postby terry274 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:21 pm

Mervyn, Brian, thanks for the replys. Mervyn I had the same thought as you about the lever and pin. But after studying the entire assembly I realized that the problem is somehow in the geometry of the fork, grooves, and length of the collar shaft. I have begun to suspect that someone has worked on the sliding gear or the driving gear and gotten then back in an incorrect position. I am going out now to inspect the sliding gear to see how it is attached to the collar shaft. I will report back if I discover any new information.
Again, thanks.
Terry
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Postby terry274 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:44 am

Thanks Mervyn. I went and looked at the pictures you referenced, and the weld does look like mine. I gave up and put my tractor back together. The problem is probably something simple, but I still do not know what it might be. Brian suggested that the lift pump gear might be one from a Ford 2000/3000. Until I can figure out what is not correct I will use a piece of wire around the lever to keep the PTO fully engaged. I hate that, it looks really bad.
Mervyn, can you count the clicks as your lever moves through the entire range of movement? If you count three clicks, is the full engaged position the third click?
Terry
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Postby Mervyn Spencer » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:22 am

Hi Terry

Okay let me try and explain my operation. Sitting on the tractor with the lever moved toward the front the PTO is disengaged, with the lever moved to the back the PTO is engaged.

To answer your question Terry I do not feel a definate click as I move the lever forward or backward, it is almost a smooth movement with ever so slight a resistance. The other thing I noticed was that if I over push on the lever to move it to the extreme ends there tends to be a slight return movement back to its desired position :scratchhead:.

Good luck

Brian, I was not concentrating last night when I sent my previous message to Terry, it should have been sent to Terry's message that showed the picture of the weld he was concerned about. Please could you correct it for me.

Kind regards
Mervyn
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PTO engagement

Postby brownsmule » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:20 am

Hello; My Dexta is about 75 miles from home currently. I did bush hog with it last week end. When I engage the PTO, I feel NO click to index the lever whatsoever. My farming friend (90 years of age)(still farming) close by has a Dexta and a Super Dexta and a Super Major plus a 800 series Diesel, a 1100 Massey, and a JX1070C Case-IH. I will check both his Dexta's to see IF there is an index click in either.
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Postby aldo » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:42 pm

Hi Terry,
when I had my lever apart, to fix an oil leak, mine also had the 3 positions where the ball bearing can slot in to. But in operation, there is no clicking, just fully engaged and fully disengaged, in between and you crunch the gears.
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Postby Mark » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:17 pm

Terry,
Like Aldo, mine has the three positions.
See ya
Mark

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Postby bnmccoy » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:35 pm

I have the top off of the rear since I pulled the hydraulic pump to correct the blown o-ring.

I notice I have the same problem as Terry in his original post.

When the PTO lever is operated to ingage the dog clutch; part of the teeth remain exposed; however, if you operate the lever further it will fully slide the teeth all the way into the inside of the gear driving the hydraulic pump. Problem is this is past the detent; and only solution would be to wire or use bungee cord as Terry proposed.

I wonder if somehow the fork has been sprung; although it doesn't appear to be?

I don't like the idea of only about 70% of the gear being engaged.

Bob
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Postby terry274 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:23 pm

bnmccoy, I did not use a bungee cord as this would keep pressure on the fork constantly and increase wear on the fork. I took a coat hanger and bent it so that it would keep the lever back, but left just a small amount of extra length in the hanger so the fork would not be under continuous pressre. Drill a small hole in a washer and put the washer behind a nut on the axle trumpet so you will have a good place to mount the wire.
If this is not clear, let me know and I will try to post some pictures.
Terry
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Postby bnmccoy » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:11 pm

I took it apart after looking at it closer while assembled; as I believe the fork was bent.

I gently straighten it. I would say 98% of the gear engages now.

Right or wrong, it is what I did.

I like your response Terry, as I did not think about the pressure of the fork against the gear and your method would certainly work better than the bungee cord. Thanks for quick reply.

Bob
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Postby terry274 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:21 pm

How did you straighten the fork? How much bending was neseccary? I might try this with mine, I just want to be careful not to break it. I really don't like the look of the wire rig that I have now.
Did your PTO jump out of gear under heavy use?
Terry
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Postby bnmccoy » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:41 am

I used a vice and very large 'Crescent' wrench. I was scared of too much force and breaking it.

The tractor is my father-in-law's; thought it had a few minor issues to get it running and it turned into a one year project. So I don't know if he had any trouble with it jumping out of gear; as he is 92 and doesn't remember too much accurately any more!

I had the top off because of blown o-ring between hydraulic pump flange and the side of the rear case; pulled the top off to make the inlet filter install easier and to check other seals.

Bob
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Postby kscoggins » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:25 pm

Hello, My name is Kevin, I just purchased a 1958 Dexta, it has some of these same issues. I don't remember 3 positions on the lever, but the lever kicks out while trying to bushhog, and even worse than that, PTO does not stop when you push in the clutch. I havn't tried moving the pin on the clevis yet, but am afraid I am going to have to slpit it open to correct. My questions to you guys with the pto issue, does your clutch stop the pto ?
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Postby Brian » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:16 pm

Welcome Kevin,

You have two issues:

1). Get your tractor on a slope so the front is a lot lower than the back, then take out the four bolt around the PTO shaft and draw the shaft out. You may find that the circlip holding the PTO bearing is missing. This will cause your PTO to jump out of gear.

Image

In the worst case, the ring groove in the housing can be damaged.

The problem is caused by ungreased implement PTO shafts or ones that are too long and bottom out as you raise and lower the implement.

2). Your PTO clutch disc may be stuck to the clutch drive surfaces. I have this problem if Dotty stands up for any length of time. Put the clevis pin in the second hole and you should feel the two stages of the clutch as you push the pedal down with your hand. If you have adjusted the linkage, you may have gone outside the adjustment range, if so, adjust the linkage until you can feel both stages of the clutch.

Once you have done that, tie the clutch pedal right down, put the PTO in gear and start up with your brush hog on the PTO, let her tick over really slow so the brush hog keeps jerking round. This will free the clutch plate (at least it does mine). You can sit with your foot on the clutch but it may take a minute or two,

If this fails, then you will have to split her and service the clutch.
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Postby kscoggins » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:09 am

Thanks for the information Brian. I will try that. If there is nothing attached to the pto, it shifts in ok, when I hooked up the bushhog, I had to shift quickly, otherwise the gears would grind, I only done this once of twice, didn't want to damage anything. I think its possible I didn't get the gears meshed completely and thats why it was kicking out of gear. I will look into this.
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Dexta PTO

Postby brownsmule » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:43 pm

Question for Kevin; Are you sure that your Dexta has the LIVE POWER option? (two stage clutch) If not you will need a over-ride on the end of your PTO shaft to use a bush hog safely. Nothing worse that being pushed by the mower while you want to stop. Good Luck
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Postby kscoggins » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:02 pm

How do I accuratly do that? The emblem on the grille says it has it.
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Postby Brian » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:52 pm

You have a two hole clevis and an emblem! That means a "Live" tractor.
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Postby kscoggins » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:13 pm

Moving the pin in the clevis worked.... 2 stage clutch is operational. Need to adjust the slack in the pedal now. Seems like it is extremly too high for comfort. PTO still jumps out of gear though. Time to pull the top off I guess and have a look.

Thanks for the help guys.
Kevin
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Postby Brian » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:19 pm

The clutch pedal is supposed to be high when in PTO mode. They did not get it sorted out until the Ford Force 3000.

I would go for the rear housing before I would remove the top. Faulty implement PTO shafts (too long) cause about 75%of the Dexta problems. It is also a simpler job.
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Re:

Postby fireman74 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:42 pm

terry274 wrote:bnmccoy, I did not use a bungee cord as this would keep pressure on the fork constantly and increase wear on the fork. I took a coat hanger and bent it so that it would keep the lever back, but left just a small amount of extra length in the hanger so the fork would not be under continuous pressre. Drill a small hole in a washer and put the washer behind a nut on the axle trumpet so you will have a good place to mount the wire.
If this is not clear, let me know and I will try to post some pictures.
Terry

I used a spring to try to hold mine in gear but it was still grinding under load like when I used it for bushhogging. So the spring didn't work for me.
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