Been a long time

This forum is about the Fordson Dexta, Super Dexta and Petrol Dexta.
naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

It has been years since I have visited this site. You guys help me rebuild my S Dexta. As with the Dextas, I have just worked it hard and it has given no problems. But now I have a problem. I worked it hard all day. It did great. Good oil pressure and never over 190 degrees. I finished my last food plot up and stopped to admire my work, without shutting it down, then I put it in gear to head to the trailer.... and it had lost power. Once trailered and home, it will not crank. It is getting fuel at the bleed port. It did start to loose exhaust at the muffler to manifold connection. The motor is discolored from the front injector down. I don't know if that is heat or fuel? It tries to continue after releasing the starter, as if it wants to. It is making a strange sound. Like an inside huffing. I am hope that someone can save me from exploratory mechanicing.

Brian
Grumpy
Grumpy
Posts: 5216
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:07 pm
Location: Norfolk, England.

Re: Been a long time

Post by Brian »

Possible fuel block? Although you are getting fuel at the bleed point it may not be enough so check the flow from the tank by taking the pipe off the lift pump and see if it is flowing full bore. Next check the fuel filter and make sure you have a full flow to the injection pump when you operate the lift pump lever. (turn the engine if the lift pump does not seem to work as it may have stopped on the top of the operating cam).

Have you changed the oil in the pump governor housing? Remove the pump side plate ( make sure you keep it very clean in there) and check if the rack operating the pumping plungers is free.

Slacken the injector pipes off at the injectors and see if you have fuel getting up to them.

Hopefully itis just a blocked filter in the fuel tank tap. Bit of a pain to get out but easy to cure.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

Thanks for replying Brian. I checked the rack. It is moving freely. As far as enough fuel, It seems like plenty to me.... as little fuel as this thing drinks, it should not take much to start. But that is an uneducated opinion. I could not get fuel at the very top of the injectors, that nut that holds a return to the tank. But they may mean nothing so I took apart the compression fitting right where the fuel line connects from the pump to the injector. When the motor turns over, it pulsed or spit fuel in increments. Yesterday it acted as if it was getting a portion of what it needed. It would turn a few revolutions extra after the starter was released. But this morning, it does not try to fire up like yesterday. LOL, turning screws is messing up my pretty paint job. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. ...... this tractor in summer has always been an instant starter. Not so in winter. It needs sunshine in winter. This morning, it has not hit at all, like it is winter. I am gonna charge the battery since I have been turning it over alot.... and wait for more advice. Thanks much

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

My manual picture does not match my pump. The manual has one screw for bleeding, mine has an identical one beside it. I could find nothing on lubrication of the pump. What seemed to be an oil level plug, I removed and it poured out over a pint of diesel fuel before it stopped. This does not seem right?

Brian
Grumpy
Grumpy
Posts: 5216
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:07 pm
Location: Norfolk, England.

Re: Been a long time

Post by Brian »

You will not get fuel up to the banjo bolts on the injectors until the engine is running. This is the leak back to the tank and the amount in there will be very small.

Diesel from the level plug is OK, the pump is allowed to leak diesel from the pumping elements into the oil in the governor housing. Back in the day, you should have checked the oil level once a week and changed it every time you changed the oil, but that was when they were in constant use.

I would still check the flow of fuel from the tank and through the filter. Black mould can grow in the new types of diesel and bung everything up. You may need a biocide in your fuel.

Have you checked the radiator to make sure you still have water in there and that you did not run her dry and partially seize the rings? How about the oil level?

If you have the fuel getting through you should be blowing white smoke from the exhaust.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

Radiator was over a quart low but I watch the temp gauge constantly to monitor how I am working the SDexta and I never have let it get to 200. It usually works hard at about 190 and working it easy about 170. I have always had a very small exhaust leak at the pipe to header connection, a down and back exhaust. It only shows itself when cranking. But the minute I lost power, it was blowing black smoke excessive out this now big exhaust leak. I had to go app 1000yds to get to the trailer. It running poorly, blowing out this exhaust leak, me watching the temp. The temp climbed a couple of degrees which should have dropped considering I was on the open road. But t never got to 200. But almost. The oil level is good. Nothing in the oil. How do I tell what is enough fuel? My tractor when I got it had the fuel pump removed and had an electric pump inline. So I just turn on the key and I can hear it pumping and I open the bleed screws and it bleeds out. I just don't know how much should come out. Something has to do with that exhaust leak.... the problem or the result of a problem???? I was looking at my manual. It says something about an air filter on the simms pump? The exhaust on a tractor would not stop up over time would it?

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

I looked, blowing smoke out the tailpipe. I taped up the exhaust leak with foil tape and put a pipe clamp around it. It is not leaking there now. Battery charged, it turns several revolutions after I release the starter as if it wants to.

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

It has been several years since I completed the rebuild. Hours... Not many. Maybe 25 per year. So I assume my fuel filter is good. I really need to get her going. I need to spread lime, drag level and disc in some seed. Tomorrow I will disconnect the fitting where it enters the injectors and observe if they are receiving equal fuel. When I open the bleed port, I get what I consider lots of fuel. Considering she burns fuel like a lamp, would it use more during start up? Could it have jumped timing?

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

I wonder... if I could get it cranked, pulling it off, if I could then crack the fuel lines one at a time to the injectors and observe if only one injector is giving problem

Brian
Grumpy
Grumpy
Posts: 5216
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:07 pm
Location: Norfolk, England.

Re: Been a long time

Post by Brian »

Black smoke could be indication of blocked air cleaner, check the pipe between air cleaner and manifold for collapsing.

Rare if it has jumped timing unless the bolts have come loose on the fuel pump gear.

You could try a tow start but if she was loosing power and smoking before your problems started be careful not to damage anything.

The main problem areas are fuel and air then comes overheat and seizure, if you eliminate fuel and air then you are looking for something more serious. Might be best to take the valve cover off and check that you have not dropped a valve or something before tow starting. "Chuffing noise" could indicate valve problems.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

If I take the valve cover off and look .... what am I watching for?

Brian
Grumpy
Grumpy
Posts: 5216
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:07 pm
Location: Norfolk, England.

Re: Been a long time

Post by Brian »

To make sure all the valves are going up and down and that you have no broken tappets, springs or even valves.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

Valves all working up and I assume the more important... down, not staying up. There was a jel like oil in the top of the valve cover. I turned it over almost 60 seconds before seeing the oil rise to the rockers. I took the fuel lines loose at the injectors and pointed them where I could see them well. I turned over the motor and all three were spitting the same amount, same pressure, in increments, not just coming out. I took the air filter off the top, on of the Jacobsons on the pipe, still using the oil bath, it just stays much cleaner. It was sucking when you put you hand over the pipe. Is it possible to see the timing without pulling the radiator off?

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

She has been moved from the shade tree to the garage. Getting serious now

Brian
Grumpy
Grumpy
Posts: 5216
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:07 pm
Location: Norfolk, England.

Re: Been a long time

Post by Brian »

If the valves are going up and down and no sign of damage, plus the pump has fuel up to the pipes they are all driving OK. It is impossible for the timing to go out as this is all gear driven unless something really bad has happened..

The only thing that could have happened is the bolts holding the injection pump drive gear could have come loose, these can be seen through the front plate on the timing cover. Before you get that far however, remove the inspection plate on the clutch housing and the one on the side of the fuel pump drive. You can then check if the timing marks line up.

If you are sure everything is OK fuel and air wise, then try pulling her to start.

Image

This is for the Pneumatic pump but is roughly the same.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

Could not sleep.... so I got up 3 hours early and started troubleshooting. The injector pump is timed correctly to the motor. All marks line up. -------------------------------------------------Something happened..... it did not slowly loose power. It was in an instant. Not even while it was working. It idled for 1 minute while I told my helper it was time to go.... then I put it in gear to leave..... and no power..... it had blew the small exhaust leak into a big exhaust leak. I am now thinking injector?????

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

The line back to the tank, the leak off line. At any time during turning over if you removed the gass cap, would you see fuel returning. I don't, but I wonder if during cranking, since it is not burning fuel, should that be the point when it most returns???? Probably unrelated to my problems, Just wondering. If it were not getting enough fuel due to a dirty filter, would it not get air in it? There is no air in the system. Having the electric fuel pump works good when bleeding.

ianpdexta
True Blue
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:50 pm

Re: Been a long time

Post by ianpdexta »

I'm not claiming any special experience or knowledge here but if it is has fuel, air and valves working plus making a strange noise could the head gasket have blown between two cylinders? Compression would escape and combine maybe with the remaining cylinders exhaust possibly contributing to the exhaust leak being enlarged - just wild thought??

Regards

Ian

Brian
Grumpy
Grumpy
Posts: 5216
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:07 pm
Location: Norfolk, England.

Re: Been a long time

Post by Brian »

Fuel in the return line is not an issue, the return line carries virtually no fuel at all, it is the spill off line from the injectors and if you think about it, the pump delivers only a small amount of fuel to each injector the majority of which is injected into the combustion chambers. Even if your engine is not running and you are still operating the starter, the injectors are still injecting that fuel into the engine.

In theory, if your getting fuel into the cylinders and it is not firing, you should at least be getting white smoke out of the exhaust but you do not seem to be.
Ian has a point about the head gasket but I would not have expected black smoke, again it should be white smoke. White smoke is unburnt fuel or water in the combustion chambers.

I think the time has come for a little un-recommended action! :cry: :cry: Try a small amount of starting fluid into the air intake. I really do mean a small amount too. If she fires up and runs on the fluid your problem is fuel related. You may find once she has been started your problem will disappear.

Another point, fuel at the injector pipes is not necessarily an indication that all is OK. The pump has to build a pressure of around 2000 psi to get the injector to inject. It may be delivering the fuel but not the pressure. To test, you will need to remove the injectors and try them on the pipes whilst you are turning the engine over to see if they spray. Be very careful not to get the spray on any exposed skin as the spray can easily penetrate the skin and cause fatal results if it got to the heart. In the best case you are looking at amputation of the affected part so please be careful.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian

Brian
Grumpy
Grumpy
Posts: 5216
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:07 pm
Location: Norfolk, England.

Re: Been a long time

Post by Brian »

Just a thought, you say that you have an increased exhaust leak from the manifold and you have an under swept exhaust. Any chance this has become plugged? This could cause the increased leak and the none running.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

I am getting smoke out the tail pipe. Color???? Cant say all white

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

tried a little starting fluid. It did not hit

Brian
Grumpy
Grumpy
Posts: 5216
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:07 pm
Location: Norfolk, England.

Re: Been a long time

Post by Brian »

OK, if she will not fire on starting fluid something bad has happened, could be head gasket or could be seized rings. Head gasket would be your best situation but you will only know once you take the head off.

Did you try towing her to start?
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

Not yet. I have not checked the injectors for spray yet

naildriver
True Blue
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Monroe, North Carolina

Re: Been a long time

Post by naildriver »

OK, coming from the front, injector one was spitting, was not a good spray... and from one hole. If I recall, it has two???? Injector 2 had no sign of fuel. I was loosing a little at the fitting since I had to change the angle to be able to see. So the pressure may not have been 100%. Injector 3 had more of what I would expect to see. A high pressure spray. So, is it injectors or the pump not giving enough pressure.

Post Reply