FSMajor engine breather (13mm type)

[LesLock]

I am trying to source an engine breather of the later type, 13mm, but they appear to be in very short supply, extinct even. Some suppliers say they have not had any for 3 years and Sparex told me they are not supplying either type now.

Does anyone know where I can get this part or is it expected that an 18mm type will be purchased and modified? Has anyone sourced one from France or elsewhere?

[Billy26F5]

Sounds worrying, Look around on ebay and so on as original ones should still be available and in reasonable condition. I've seen far too many engines missing the breather, allowing dirt to get in. If you're missing it I recommend you plug the hole for now to make the system work like it does on the Mk1 engine until you find a good breather.
Sandy

[LesLock]

I do have the engine breather attached to the tractor but it won’t hold oil due to a couple of pin holes in the bottom. I may have to get an 18mm spindle type and reduce it down to 13mm. Presumably this will be okay? Another advantage is that the larger spindle types are invariably blue whereas the smaller ones need painting. Is that because they fit other tractors?

If anyone knows where I can find the smaller spindle type I would like to know please. Nothing on ebay at the moment. Haven’t tried second hand yet as I assume they are probably nearing the state that mine is in. Available in France it seems.

[Billy26F5]

I don't know of any use other than the Major for these breathers. I suspect the later ones are unpainted as there are many Ebro tractors which also use these but are not blue (many spares were available from Ebro when Ford discontinued them as Ebro had Major's in production until the late seventies), but then again no Thames Trader had a blue engine yet they all had a breather too.
I would suggest you give yours a good clean and then try to seal the holes so it holds oil. Probably not easy to weld but you might get away with chemical metal or something similar. A scrapy might be of some use too. Not noticed holes in breathers as being very common, they're often overlooked and even removed allowing dirt in freely to ruin the engine.
Sandy

[Hair Bear]

Some older carb type lawnmower engines used a very similar item as an air cleaner. Might be worth a search.

[LesLock]

No comment on using the 18mm type? The main oil bath had pinholes in after cleaning out so I had to replace that too.

Am I correct in thinking that the engine breather is basically a pressure relief valve for the engine crankcase and that there is no admittance of air into the crankcase via this breather? I have read conflicting things in this regard.

[Billy26F5]

Definitely not for outlet, when they do blow, oil spills out (and that happens when you have poor compression or the rocker cover pipe is not properly fitted). Air goes in through the breather and is sucked out through the rocker cover into the air filter and eventually to the cylinders where these gasses burn with the fuel.
I think it will be quite difficult to adapt the earlier breather, they fit in a very different way and have different amounts of mesh inside (the early one uses an o-ring and has no shoulder at the top, whereas the late one has no o-ring and a shoulder inside to seal it). I think you'll get the best solution (at least for now) by fixing your current breather and perhaps keeping an eye out for one in better condition.
Sandy

[LesLock]

Sandy, you say that the engine breather acts as an air intake? I understood it relieved the pressure in the crankcase and thus it let air out. However I guess if it was an outlet then it wouldn’t need the oil bath? Just explain a little more please if you would.

Just fired off a number of enquiries about the 13mm type engine breather including to France and even Australia! If this comes to nothing I will be looking at the second hand market. Must be a good reason why only the 18mm type are available.

[Billy26F5]

Before the Mk2 engine there was a pipe from the rocker cover to the intake manifold that would keep the crankcase under a vacuum, this was liable to issues due to the potential for leaks allowing the engine to run faster and also not really ventilating the crankcase (though still better than the conventional overflow pipe setup). From the Mk2 this was changed, the rocker cover pipe was moved to the air filter so it didn't affect the revs and the breather was added to the timing cover to provide active ventilation through the crankcase which although still under a light vacuum is fairly close to outside pressure but now with a constant draught dependant on engine speed keeping the inside free of hot oil gasses.
I don't see any good reason for the later breather to be unavailable, as I think there are actually more engines with it than with the early type. But it could be something to do with manufacturing companies, as other parts are or have been unavailable for quite a long time too. Overall I don't think any of the aftermarket companies have understood the way Fordson service was carried out when Ford still made spares.
Sandy

[LesLock]

Thanks for the explanation Sandy. Just to pursue this to a conclusion, what route do the ‘hot oil gases’ take from the crankcase in order to be re-combusted or vented? By the way I recently cleaned out the small bore pipe which goes from the top of the rocker cover to the air intake. It was blocked I would say, but why is the bore so small?

Just got an ‘out of stock’ reply from a supplier in France. Got a message in German which I am deciphering. I am not too hopeful at present but could be enquiring about a second hand one next week. There is quite a long spindle to mount the breather on and a jubilee clip secures the breather to this spindle. Are you sure Sandy that the 18mm type is unlikely to fit?

[Billy26F5]

The air enters the breather where it gets cleaned before going into the timing cover, it then goes into the main crankcase area before going up through the push rod holes (and two wee holes between the lower block and the tappet cover area where oil drains back simultaneously) to the rocker cover where they're sucked out through the air filter for combustion with incoming air. As the vacuum at the filter is still quite high it only requires the 3/8" pipe fitted, rather than the more usual 5/8" used with venting type systems on other engines. The design of the fitting is totally different as you can see on Billy

the breather itself is similarly short, making fitting it to a later cover much more difficult. You would need a different hose clip too, and these use the wire type. I really think you'll have an easier job fixing your current one than trying to fit the wrong one. The sizes are not quite metric, the early one is some 11/16" (will confirm these sizes tomorrow) while the later one is 1/2".
Sandy

[LesLock]

Thank you for the information Sandy. Are you showing the engine breather in your photograph as what
I think is the breather does not look like mine? The 18 mm and 13 mm breathers are very similar in appearance and it does look as though the 18 mm one could be substituted for the 13 mm type with some appropriate tubing, not that I want to go that route.

I may have found a used one but need to confirm the size. Has no one out there sourced one of these recently? They appear to have been scarce for years.

[Billy26F5]

I chose this pic precisely so you could see the mounting, the breather was beeing cleaned and was off at the time, but you should see the o-ring used in this earlier breather. From outside they look very similar, but inside they're not as similar. You will get an early top on a late bottom (but it won't filter properly) but not the opposite as there's more mesh in the later type to compensate for the smaller mounting, the height of the mounting is also different. Here's another pic with the breather in situ after that clean:

I really don't understand how they can have made such a mess of things but we definitely need to put some pressure on aftermarket companies to get these available again, as there are far far too many missing.
Sandy

[LesLock]

Thanks for the explanation Sandy. As I said, both my oil baths had holes in them. Would you say that is due to a lack of oil or do they rust from the outside?
I believe I have actually found a supplier in England who claims to have 3 of the type of engine breather that I require. I have paid a total of £42 for one and await its arrival. I will say more when it actually arrives.

[Billy26F5]

I would think it's more likely from neglect, although that can cause rust from both inside and outside, in most cases from the inside as incoming air is cold and damp, and you might well find condensation on the outside of the air hose on cold damp days. Rather expensive, but if it works it works.
Sandy

[LesLock]

Well my engine breather has arrived from Vintage Tractor Spares (VTS) but it’s not plain sailing. I would like to push the breather fully home but basically the hole in the breather is about 12mm in diameter and the spindle on the tractor is about 12.5mm diameter. Another manufacturing problem! Looks like a bit of filing/drilling is required. I can’t afford to be fussy as these are scarce items and that’s why I was prepared to pay over and above the ‘normal’ price. The question now is ‘Is it necessary for the breather to sit fully down on the spindle?’. By the way I believe VTS have a couple more of these but there will be no more I am told.

[Old Hywel]

1/2” breather listed by Railswood Tractors.
£30.

[Billy26F5]

As long as it seals there's no problem, but I propose you swap the tubes (they're brazed onto the bowl), as it will give you more room. The early breather is actually 5/8", looks like Railswood have actually listed them both correctly, but they don't say if they're in stock or not.
Looks like the aftermarket jinx is back.
Sandy

[LesLock]

Railswood list the breathers but they are on my list of suppliers who say they have not actually got any. Old20 Parts also list them but haven’t got any. I would be interested to know if anyone out there can actually locate any in England other than VTS and maybe that accounts for the rather high price.

I would also be interested to know if the internal diameter of the bore varies between manufacturers. With a fair bit of filing with a round file I was able to fully seat the breather. I put oil to a depth of about 0.5”, to the indent mark. I think that’s right? Another challenge over! Thanks for your guidance Sandy. Steering box next or maybe check the brakes.

[Billy26F5]

The level is indeed the indent near the bottom. Hope you cleaned everything well to avoid filings getting in. Agriline also have them out of stock.
If you have issues with the brakes I would deal with them first, the steering box is a more delicate job during which I recommend you clean the fuel tank as they often get lots of dirt inside, not easy either. With the brakes start by setting them to spec, then see if you have them locking on you, if so you'll need to check the actuator is not too damaged. New parts for these are available but they're often not correct either.
Sandy