The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Tractor owned by David Monton in Spain - believed to be the only surviving example. Spainish diesel engine conversion equivalent to the British Perkins P6 conversion

David,
Thanks for all of the interesting information from Spain.
I searched for Barreiros on the internet and found out that they were founded in 1954. This conversion had to be made after the E27N was out of production. I wonder how many E27Ns there were in Spain. Did they import E1A Majors into Spain before the Ebro?

JC wrote:David,
Thanks for all of the interesting information from Spain.
I searched for Barreiros on the internet and found out that they were founded in 1954. This conversion had to be made after the E27N was out of production. I wonder how many E27Ns there were in Spain. Did they import E1A Majors into Spain before the Ebro?

The company of Barreiros produced their own range of tractors in Spain in the 1960's. They joined forces with Hanomag in Germany to build tractors.
Hanomag were specialists in construction equipment who were later taken over by MF - well known for their smaller crawler loaders.
E27N's are rare in Spain I am told.

Hi David,

Is it my imagination or does that engine have a little more than a passing resemblence to a Perkins P6. Just things like the injector pump, injectors, cooling system feed to the head, combustion chamber covers starter etc. OK exhaust and intake manifolds are different but the rest looks darn similar. I remember Barry here in Australia saw what he thought was a strange P6 at a show some time ago. Maybe it was one of these engines.

Regards, Frank.

I am no expert on Perkins engines. Maybe someone here has a P6 Major and can compare it to the close-up side view photo.

Spain's vehicle industry was based on co-operation between the Spanish government and manufacturers from other Countries. The EBRO was a classic example with their tie up with Ford and later MF.

Later model MF tractors were assembled in Spain by EBRO. And Ransomes' ploughs & implements were also produced there under licence.

Firstly, thank you David for the photos.

Yes, the Barreiros looks like a copy of the Perkins P6. I just did another internet search and found this:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 28,00.html
which tells us that the engine was most definitely a copy.

Frank, the strange P6 you mentioned was an early model.

Eric

My Spanish friend David Monton has asked me post his email about the history of Barreiros engines. Please excuse the English, David doesnt speak English and uses an on-line translation service.

This gives another side to the Barreiros story. Its good that we are able to share information between enthusiasts.

This is David's email:-

I have been reading your article about my Fordson in your forum: The engine EB 6 is not an illegal copy of P 6: the government of the military dictator Franco, gained the war thanks to the passivity of UK and there had never been allowed an illegal copy of a British product: Eduardo Barreiros advised by British lawyers, used a legal so-called resource " patent of introduction ": Frank Perkins never wanted to believe that a Spain destroyed by the civil war from 1936 to 1939 and that had already constructed the mythical ones " Hispano Suiza " (The best engine of aviation of the Allied Forces, used also by the R.A.F.), it was capable of constructing a legal version of the P6, included the pump of injection and it never worried about patenting the engines Perkins in Spain, since he believed that a country backward and destroyed by the war, it was not capable of constructing engines diesel of high quality.

You already see that Frank Perkins, for his scorn to the Spaniard industry, lost a big market, since the EB 6 and other engines Barreiros, the whole world could be exported legally, included UK and his Empire.
The bad politics Perkins, took finally to the selling Massey-Ferguson.
I hope that you should exhibit this information in your forum, so that the truth is known.

Hello,

These Spanish Fordsons really are intersting.

Unfortunately I do not get Davids clou out of the story? Can someone indicate what he is telling?

Do I understand it right when I think this is meant: "In those days England did not worry about the patents of their products in Spain, because common believe was that Spain was not able to produce such sophisticated machines as those in England. So Spanish industry was no thread to England"

Best regards

Emiel

Hi Emiel,

What I understand from David's email is that it was Frank Perkins who did not bother to patent his engine in Spain. He thought that Spain being so damaged by the civil war and in his opinion such a backward country would never be able to produce a diesel engine or injection pump, even though there was a company called Hispano Suiza that were building world class aircraft engines that were even being used by the R. A. F.. Eduardo Barreiros tried to negotiate with Frank Perkins to build Perkins engines in Spain but Frank Perkins did not take him seriously and no deal was set up. After failing with Perkins he was told by British lawyers to use a Spanish Law that allowed him to patent the P6 as his own in Spain.

Because Frank Perkins disregarded the skill of Spanish industry and did not patent his engines in Spain it allowed Eduardo Barreiros to patent the engine himself in Spain. This then allowed him to export his engines all over the world. Obviously not a great business decision on the part of Frank Perkins. According to David bad business decisions ultimately led to Perkins Engine company being sold to Massey Ferguson.

David, (Both of you)

Thank you so much for the story and pictures.

Regards, Frank.

Emiel, Frank & David,

I understand David Monton's side of the story, but can he tell us what year Barreiros had their initial talks with Perkins, and what year did they produce their copy of the P6. Did they buy in Fuel Injection Systems from CAV or build them under Licence. The same goes for the Electrical System, was it Lucas or Bosch. (The early P6 had Bosch Fuel System and a Bosch Starter with a Lucas Generator). Filtration was Vokes and CAV. Also, it would be interesting to know how many EB6 Engines were produced.

Are there any historians from Perkins who could give the Perkins side of this interesting article.

Hello!:

You asked me that electrical team possesses the engine Barreiros EB6 and also about the pump of injection.

There look at the publicity of Barreiros on the transformation of E 27 N: the team is of a daughter company of Barreiros: CEESA. The pump of injection was made by Barreiros.

If I can give them more information, only they have of asking me for it.

Greetings: David

With a higher top RPM and 24v electrics it must have flown!
I noticed the difference between driving my TVO and my L4 conversion tractors as there was I think an extra 200 RPM from the L4 plus 45 not 27HP and the Spanish E27N even has 50HP!
More bang for your buck!
Jerry

Hi jerry Coles and all the people:

The engine EB 6 was the first engine made by Barreiros and it was used by trucks, buses and tractors: the EB 6 has 90 HP but it was limited to 50 HP by means of the pump of injection to adapt to E 27 27 N. An engine of 90 HP limited to 50 HP, it works very rested.

The engine Thames of my Super Ebro (model 2) was exhausted and I bought an engine of truck Ebro Thames of 70 HP 2200 rpm, that I could change alone (today I might not). The official seller of spares Ebro warned me that it should take care, since from 1700 to 2200 was happening rpm and that is too much in 6th gear: the tractor comes to 50 km/h. too rapidly.

Bests Regards: David

HI.

After much to clean the ugly green painting for machinery, I could have painted part of me E 27 N EB 6. The color most similar to the blue-night of Fordson, I think that it is the RAL 5022: they already will say to me if it is very different from the dark blue one of Fordson.

I warn: the pan that covers the exhaust pipe, is not an spare part original Fordson: it is a product of the almost missing craft potter of my village.

Greetings: David

Hi David,

It is so good to see your E27N EB 6 at home. I am not too sure about the green colour, but I love the exhaust cover. I keep forgetting to take my spray paint can cap off when I start my tractor and it can be anywhere after it starts. Keep the great pictures coming.

Regards, Frank.

I bet if he forgets to take to pot off he will have simply smashing results....

Nice Tractor. Dandy Dave!

Hi:

I see that the photos that my friend David exhibited in Wales are already not: I show them the tractor on the truck that took it to my house and two images of the engine EB 6.

The gray color of the photo of the previous post is of the painting called here " priming " (is it the correct name?) that in this case is a special painting to do on the coat of zinc (galvanized) of the fuel deposit and on iron in general. Then I must do with painting of polyurethane of two components in color RAL 5022 (blue night). Is blue this one very different from the original one?

Bests Regards: David.