I have an old Fordson N (thought it was an F, but thanks Dandy Dave) that belonged to my great grandfather. He used it to pave roads. It has been sitting for about 50 years with the engine and rear wheels locked up. I'm thinking that the transmission is stuck. I took the shifter off to try to free up the gears, but they seemed to move back and forth without issue. I'm not sure where to go from here. I'd like to get it towed over to the barn without dragging it. I towed it a few feet as you can see in the picture to try and rock it free, but didn't work. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Bryan Small
Landenberg, PA, US
Last edited by Smalls4X4 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You could have water frozen in the transmission as cold as it had been in recent days. These tractors do not tow easy to begin with as they have a worm drive. You could break the bronze ring gear by dragging it. Best if you could get a backhoe or loader and lift the back end off of the ground to move it. Sitting that many years in Pennslyvania weather, sounds like it will need a teardown to get it loosened up. First thing to do will be to get it in a warm shop and drain any water that has found its way into the trans, or engine oil pan. Also, it is not an "F", it is an "N" Should have a Mag on the right side of the engine. Dandy Dave!
Thanks Dandy Dave, I do have a neighbor with a loader so I guess that would be the best way to go. I was trying to get it free so I could move it but as you suggest that probably isn't possible without tearing the rear end apart.
Hi Brian
As Dave said it has the worm drive rear end so not recommended to tow it, there is a guy on you tube doing it though . Also the brakes are activated by the single clutch pedal on the right side, if it's the same set up as dad had on the ones he farmed with in the day . push the clutch half way to disengage drive then the rest of the way is brakes.
So depending if your trying to tow it with the pedal right down the brakes could be locked up, or stuck on if parked with the pedal locked down. I seem to remember dad saying the park brake was a hook to hold the clutch pedal down .
Regards Robert
Possibly a lot of you blokes on the forum are new to Fordsons, so believe some of the stories you have heard. I don't mind being a myth buster, so here is another one.
The Fordson is propelled forwards by (apart from a gear train) by a worm meshing with a worm wheel. You can jerk the clutch, pull stumps, or do what you like, and the worm will not break. Towing the tractor is no worse. There is an exception. If the worm wheel had teeth worn right down you could shear off the last little bit. The same would happen with a stiff pull.
Because of the friction in the worm drive and sticky old oil, the Fordson is not easy to tow. For longer distance towing, the method was to remove the worm. Remove the rear bearing cap/drawbar and you should be able to wind the worm out by gripping the nut that holds the bearing.
There has been a fair bit of Fordson towing on our Shark with no ill effects. I would not hesitate to do it again.
Eric
P.S. If you go and tow your Fordson and wreck the rear end, I accept no responsibility!!
Eric Schulz wrote:Possibly a lot of you blokes on the forum are new to Fordsons, so believe some of the stories you have heard.
P.S. If you go and tow your Fordson and wreck the rear end, I accept no responsibility!!
Hi Eric
I hit 40 in Feb next year and that myth is older than me my dads 67 and ran them farming in his younger days .
Nice warranty disclaimer you have there to by the way
I have heard a few get messed up but don't know the reason would not mind putting one in my collection here in Canada.
I missed 2 in a sale a month ago , the week after I got the 2 p6 27n's, figured I was gonna get yelled at for bringing 2 more tractors home that month .
Regards Robert
hi some thing not allways rembered is if the clucth is in the brake is on as theres no clear free point. we had trouble with ours took the gear leaver off to check the box and had alot of trouble getting it back on kept getting two gears and locking the trans as with a early blue n with no pto plate theres no way to see what your doing. your tractor or roller? apppers to have a blue n rear with a orange n on radditor if you need a manual old 20 have them for the n b
1x 23f 1x 34 blue n 1 x 44 green n e27/s x 8 3ooo/ 5000 slectospeed county 754 x1 ford k series truck
I have pulled the worm out of the rear end in the past myself. Problem is that if the trans is full of ice, or rust, everything will be locked up. Get it in a warm shop and thaw it out first. Pull out the tranny plugs and see how much water runs out and if any oil is left on top of it. I have sometimes taken the back cover off and then carefully pushed the wheels forward to get the worm to walk straight out of the back. The serial number is on the mag side of the engine toward the front and just above the manifold. Sometimes the numbers are not easy to read as they rust in that spot. Get it if you can and we can pin down the year. Dandy Dave!
Thanks for all the tips! I didn't know the clutch and brake worked together. When I took the shifter off for the first time it was a very light oil, seemed almost like old oil mixed with kerosene. I'm hopeful there is no water in it. I think I'll attempt to take the worm drive out and see how that goes. I'll look for the serial number as well. The fordson roller was my great grandfather's who used it for his paving business. My grandfather tells me the only problem was getting the very middle of the road. We also have a 1937 Buffalo Springfield 10 ton 6 cylinder gasoline roller that still runs. I'll let you know how I make out.
Light oil in the rear sounds like someone has been there tinkering. These trannys originally has 600WT goo in them. Thinking back, Even if you jack up one rear wheel and take the bolts out of the hitch cover, You may beable to rock the wheel enough to get the worm to release and walk out enough to get it out the rest of the way by hand. Just do not get rammy after it releases and is part way out. The easiest way to see if you have water is to take a wrench and pan out to the tractor and pull the plug. You will see rather quickly if it is solid with ice, or drippy with oil. Oil floats on top of water so the ice/ water will be in the bottom if there is any. Dandy Dave!
Had some time to work on it a bit yesterday. Found the serial number to be N 35326 E. It was stamped on the plate below the steering wheel. I got the cover off the back and the cotter pin out, but didn't have a socket large enough for the nut with me. I tried with a large adjustable, but it is on there very tight. It had the same oil in it as I found in the trans, very light oil seemed like mixed with kerosene. Here are some pictures:
hi you dont undo that nut it holds the rear bearings to the worm .bearing are ajusted by removing shims between end cap and outer bearing cone the worm comes out compleat. to wind it out by the nut the trans would have to turn .if you now pull the tractor forward the forward movement should exple the worm as the now removed cap takes the end thrust the gearbox and diff have common oil and the level is on the side of the gear leaver filler hole it's old style 140 that's like mollasas I use a caltex product that's meant for winches and is designed for brass worms and bearing cages ep oils eat them b
1x 23f 1x 34 blue n 1 x 44 green n e27/s x 8 3ooo/ 5000 slectospeed county 754 x1 ford k series truck
Like Brockwood said, You do not need to take off the nut. Also, like he said,If the trans wont turn it will not screw out but will "Walk out" by moving at least one wheel in a forward motion. Like I said, Jack up one wheel and try to rock it by hand. It should release and pop out of the rear. A friend of mine had one of these N's years ago with a locked up transmission. With a cover or two off, and turning by hand, the trans would go part way and stop, and then it would go the otherway and do the same thing. He asked me to take a look and I discovered the problem was one of the gears had rusted from sitting in water. The rusted area had expanded enough that it jambed the gears. I carefully chipped away at the rusted area with a hammer and chisel until the rust was removed and the shaft turned freely. We put it back together, filled it with oil and he was on his way to the tractor show. Dandy Dave!
Good news! Thanks to all of your help I was able to get it moved yesterday over to the garage. I didn't have any help with me so I had to get inventive and shove it in with a 4x4, that was fun. My grandparents were glad to hear I was making progress as it hasn't moved since my great grandfather past away in 1960.
Any suggestions on the next step to get the transmission freed up? I tried to buy a manual from the old 20 site but it didn't look like they would ship to the US. I also looked for the serial number again but it has loads of paint on it. Are the numbers raised or will I need to gently use sandpaper in the areas and look for it? Here are some pictures of the move, you can also see our JD A, JD B, and 1937 Buffalo Springfield 10 ton roller.
Nice to see you have it moved. The number will be stamped and on the block. Some of these were not stamped all that deep so rust may also make it hard, or impossible to read. The last photo should be in about the right spot, but the Governor tube and bracket may be in the way. I have several of them green and yeller show tractors also. Dandy Dave!
Looks like it is not a problem to get it shipped here either.
Also, for here in the US you may want to check these guys. http://www.autolit.com/
I have delt with them before and always had good luck. They have books for much more than just cars. They may even have an original book on the shelf. Dandy Dave!
Hello,
Did the gearbox/handbrake issue get solved?
In regard to towing the worm drive models I just Thought I would enlighten those who do not know.
I am a first class machinist by trade and can tell you the reason why there is a so called myth about towing these worm drive tractors.
Reduction gearboxes ratios grearter than 40:1 are considered non reversable in the machining trade, ( so this would make the Fordson in the range of reversable, ( towable ) though probably not recomended )
If the Fordson had a diff ratio greater than 40;1 it could not coast when the throttle was closed, and would be dammed slow! ( I haven't looked up the actual ratio )
There will be several variables that would come into play when towing these tractors and by far not the least would be if the handbrake was not released ( or siezed ) in such a situation the load on the brass worm wheel would be greatly increased and quite possibly sheer the worm wheel. A tight or siezed engine could also strip the gears.
I have a Malcolm Moore grader which had the front axle removed and towed around as a tow behind grader for some years I believe, and when I purchased and loaded from the wheat belt farm I towed it to the truck and had it loaded , at that time I was not aware that it had a worm drive, and was somewhat distressed when I was made aware of this fact.
On dismantling I found that though there was wear on the worm and worm wheel gears they were still intact!
This 1937 grader has a genuine Ford replacement engine with the starter motor hole and I wish to fit one, as the original manner of crank starting on the grader is very hazzardous, I am considering using a petrol E1 A starter if I can get it to fit and seal the oil, of course it will require a ring gear on the flywheel.
Hi the ratio of the worm is 17 to 1 special order for road work 11 to 1 the 17 is simmler to the overall ratio of a e27 as far as towing i wont get into that however we have tow started our blue n but it has the 7.7 box try tow starting a car in first a 4.3 e27 will often drag the wheels so i guess its partly leverage as for starting my grader has the crank handle on the beltpully with a supporting outrigger its quite convenient thou iv never used it as it has a p6 how ever my e27 county full track has the same and i use it all the time . as far as starters go there was some inconclusive discussion some time ago about possible fitting to n/s my blue n has a factory reco on a e27 block with the starter hole it would be interesting to know what the ones you see in the Pom mags at ploughing matches with p6/s in them do what i have seen done is a automatic trans drive disk on the back of the belt pulley and starter mounted as to suit seamed to work all right b
1x 23f 1x 34 blue n 1 x 44 green n e27/s x 8 3ooo/ 5000 slectospeed county 754 x1 ford k series truck
Hi I found the following comments which I have cut out on the fordson e27 face book page
Statement by Allan condie
You can fit a starter to an N provided you have an E27N block - you use the E27N flywheel and clutch, which will work with the wishbone of the N clutch mechanism!
My question On the n starter do you have to change the gearbox front shaft as well ?
Response Gearbox shaft needs changing if using e27n clutch and flywheel. Also you need to cut out the gearbox bell housing and weld in an aperture to cover the nose of the starter as on an e27n.
Another person’s comment
I recall a story in tractor magazine some years ago where a guy fitted an e27n clutch to his tractor and what a difference it made! It showed how to do the conversion and everything
The interesting thing about all this which could be worth thinking about is if a e27 clutch is fitted could you also fit the malcome moore constant running drive to give a live lift to the likes of a n grader as on a e27 because there a real pain without it the first grader I ever drove was that way the owner ended up putting a Honda on the screw jack drive I don’t know if you have seen them I haven’t had one down to get pics I do have a manual for my grader which shows it but basically they put a gear on the back of the pressure plate which on a e 27 is covenantal thus spins with the fly wheel unlike the n clutch which stops and the plates continue spinning inside it I have been looking at this for a project we have in mind but it’s a long way off cheers bj
1x 23f 1x 34 blue n 1 x 44 green n e27/s x 8 3ooo/ 5000 slectospeed county 754 x1 ford k series truck
. Also the brakes are activated by the single clutch pedal on the right side, if it's the same set up as dad had on the ones he farmed with in the day 
. push the clutch half way to disengage drive then the rest of the way is brakes. 
.
.
Dandy Dave!