virtually siezed major

This forum is about the Fordson F, N and E27N Major.
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Kieran
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virtually siezed major

Post by Kieran »

Hello,
I have a fordson Major on my boat! However I am more familiar with the sailing aspect than the engine, though I love this engine!! yesterday the engine came to a stop, it was idling as I was sailing at the time, a quick check showed that the oil was empty... not total negligence as I had checked it a couple of days previous before a long 6 hour run. I can just turn it on the crank nut with a big spanner and the starter will just about turn it over.
So Questions for you pro's: Can I continue to try freeing it and see if I can get it going? or will this possibly do more damage?
Is it most likely bearings seized? main or big end? in which case I'll have have to drop the bottom off of course?
If the crank has been reground, are the bearing sizes marked on the bearings?
If, as I imagine is probably the case, I have to get into the guts of it, is there other parts you'd suggest I replace while I'm in there (its not all easy lifting it out of the boat) I'd like to make just 1 order, probably with agriline...? as I'm oversees.
Any suggestions where to look for where the oil spewed out from?
Thank you thank you, this forum saved my bacon many years ago after this engine took a salt water bath!

Billy26F5
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by Billy26F5 »

If the oil has gone look at the drain plug first, if it seems loose, get a thing you can fill with oil and drain a bit if it will come out, examine this once you have put the plug back on tight. If there's any visible filing you'll need a full overhaul, if there's nothing you might get away with new bearings on the newly reground crank (the old bearings will give the appropriate information) and that's it, but only do that if it's a very urgent need. Don't run the engine until you've seen what has happened and fixed it. I recommend you dismantle everything (the injector pump and injectors should be ok, if they're not they'll need specialist tools for testing) and post pics on the forum and we'll see what you need to order. You should check the oil before every start however short, and keep an eye on the oil pressure, if it gets low you're in trouble (anything below 30 psi and hot is already low, but if it goes below 10 psi stop the engine immediately and start looking on the spot, as you might see what has happened to the engine).
Sandy
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John b
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by John b »

As Sandy says it sounds like you will need a crank regrind and new shells. Don't try and crank the engine, if you spin a shell bearing in its housing it will wreck the housing. Depending on the condition of the liners i would say new piston rings would be the minimum you could do as you have it stripped anyway. I would be a little concerned as to where the oil went if there are no signs of leaks, was it smoking before it died? Try not to buy engine parts from Agriline unless you have no other choice, they are probably one of the cheapest but if your engine fails on a boat it's not quite as easy as having to walk back across a field! As it's highly likely you will need a crank regrind the machine shop should be able to get bearings for you and probably any ather parts you need, if possible don't use the cheapest parts you can find, if you think it's a pain now, imagine having to do it again in 6 months time!
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by Billy26F5 »

Here's what can happen if it gets really bad. This is Super Billy's big end no. 1 and both the crank and con-rod were write-offs.
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We did get our bits for Super Billy from Agriline (a very long time ago) and our only complaint is that they kept missing stuff and putting things in that were wrong (not in the order).
Sandy
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John b
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by John b »

Ouch! There are alot of horror stories about Agriline but there are also alot of people who have never had a problem with them. I get the fact that it's easy to find plenty of parts here in the UK, but not so easy in other parts of the world. Personally i dont have a problem with using Agrilline for some parts, but given the choice i wouldn't use them for engine components, the quality isn't as good as it could be. If the machine shop can supply shells i would think they would use quality parts even if they are slightly more expensive. My local machine shop/engine builder won't assemble an engine if the customer supplies Agriline parts, says he can't guarantee the engine and doesn't trust the quality of the parts, and he's been doing it for nearly 50 years
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Kieran
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by Kieran »

Great, all good info. I'll have more questions later for sure but for now I will start pulling the engine out and see what I find, If not Agriline, any other trustwothy people that can send stuff mail order...? It'll have to be mail order i think as I'm relatively remote in the Caribbean.

John b
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by John b »

I have used APUK for parts, they are on ebay and ship all over the world, the postage might be rather expensive though! Don't really know much about boats, does the engine have to work hard? If its not revved really hard you may be fine with Agriline if that's all you have available at a reasonable price. Engines in tractors usually get used hard so the parts get a real hammering
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by Billy26F5 »

It depends on the boat but it should be a more constant load which should make for less shock wear (on a tractor you can hit obstacles while ploughing that can vary the load considerably and do so suddenly, you then add the occasional jerk on the clutch for not paying attention which we have done quite a bit accompanied by stalling the engine). If the propeller is big and turns fast the load will be high, but it should wear the engine less than a tractor, the boat will also be in far less dust and therefore the oils will survive better and extend the time to the next overhaul when compared to a tractor.
Sandy
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John b
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by John b »

Soounds like the engine should have an easier time of it with less abuse than a tractor. I have personally never used Agriline parts in an engine so i can only go on what i've been told, but Super Billy is running ok with them so maybe the best option if sourcing anything else is a problem
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Emiel
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by Emiel »

Hi,

Agree with other writers on solution to your prob. Find out where the oil did go and 2nd, check whats broken before ordering parts. So start taking it out and dismantle is a good idea. Otherwise you might end up paying for an extra shipment for something you didn’t expect to need. And you might be lucky with not too much damage.

Don’t have experiences with agriline. The good thing is they have lots of stuff and seem to be able to ship anywhere.
Do have very good experience with Anglo agri parts though. But don’t know about availability and their major engine parts.

If you need to grind crankshaft, find out first what it is gonna cost. New ones are sometimes a better choice.
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1949, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

Billy26F5
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by Billy26F5 »

Super Billy hasn't actually run yet as we're taking ages and ages to finish this, the parts look and feel good, but we won't know about running until we finish the front axle, which has been completely halted since Covid appeared. We've got other Agriline stuff but it's not important stuff and what has been used has been fine. Their injector nozzles held up pretty well to 8 years storage before use, with only one needing slight freeing up and they all set up straight away. They might need freeing again (we did this two years ago), hopefully not though.
Sandy
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Kieran
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by Kieran »

So we've lifted the engine and in the process found that the rather fragile looking pressure gauge pipe had broken... so thats where the oil leaked (there's very little movement in this gauge at the best of times but yes I should have noticed!)
We've dropped the sump off and the bottoms of the con rods... the forward one, doesn't look healthy. mashed up shell and scratched crank shaft. (would insert image but having difficulty doing that...???) so regrind, or buy new crank shaft and new shells.
Do I dig deeper? The crank now spins freely by hand, so is it safe to presume main bearings are ok? and pistons slide in cylinders with no visible damage so is it safe to presume cylinders and rings are ok? (rings don't have alot of hours on them)

Thanks for the valuable comments regarding use of the engine on a boat - its a sailing boat so generally the engine gets minimal low stress, low revs work, so I will probably go with agriline.
Any recommendations for online engine workshop manuals for when it comes to putting it back together...?
Thanks again.

John b
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by John b »

If the crank is scored it will need a regrind, so you will have to remove all the big end and main caps anyway to get it out and you can inspect them all. Before you remove the main bearing caps mark them with a centre punch so you know exactly which came from where and which way round they go. They are usually stamped somewhere anyway but it's not always clear and you REALLY dont want to put them back in the wrong order or the wrong way around. The price of a regrind will depend on how many journals need doing, the machine shop will be able to measure them up and assess the damage. They should give you a price and you will have to compare it to the price of a new crank. Even if some of the crank journals are ok i would fit new shell bearings right through, and unless you take the head off it will be difficult to assess bore damage. The only way you will know the state of the pistons and rings will be to remove the pistons, but that is a decision you will have to make, play it safe and check everything or take a chance and hope you are lucky! Sandy is the man to help you with an online workshop manual, he is a mine of information
Good luck
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: virtually siezed major

Post by Billy26F5 »

For pics try this:
viewtopic.php?p=53955#p53955
As for the manual try this:
http://www.fordson.se/1A_Motorkapitlet_ ... manual.pdf
http://www.fordson.se/1A_Motor_Suplemen ... 01-031.pdf
http://www.fordson.se/1B_Motor_Koppling ... 32-048.pdf
You'll need a new oil pressure pipe or to solder connectors in the break. Only do the crank but replace all shells and have a full regrind or a new one; don't disturb the rest if it was running fine, but ensure it's totally clean. We need the serial number to see what you need to order, as engine parts are more complicated without knowing exactly what you need because of the many changes.
Sandy
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