Thames Trader: With FMD engine Vehicle performance?

[Tmac]

Thames Trader: With FMD engine
Vehicle performance?

Now I have heard of these trucks or Vans but have never seen one. What was the performance of these trucks. Such fuel economy, acceleration and load capacity. I have no Idea of their size or capacity. By todays standards the FMD engine would be considered very small for any truck except for compact pickups.

The reason for asking is that I have a extra SMD (industrial) engine and a C-10 Chev pickup that needs work. I was thinking of replacing the old 250 CU in inline 6 with the Major Engine. The C-10 is the modest of the full size Chev pickup. But its empty weight with the IL 6 cyl engine is still 4000Lbs.

So Iam looking for Ideas and opinions of this lashup using the GM 700R-4 auto trans with over drive. I take it the performance couldn't be much worse than the S-10 Blazer I have that has a 2.8 gas engine, the Blazer also weighs in at 4000 lbs.

[Grani]

The biggest problem with a FMD is that the engine has only 1900 rpm so the speed is not going to be what it has been before. The orginal Trader engine has 2500rpm and that is a little bit better.
http://images.google.fi/images?hl=fi&so ... =&gs_rfai=

[essex pete]

I would guess that you would be way under revved and powered.

[Mark]

Tom,
I used to own a C 10 with the 250 CI engine and to my best recollection the front springs weren't that strong. With the added weight of the Diesel, you would have to beef up the springs if you swapped engines. I've seen a diesel motor out of a Pettybone log loader put in one a long time ago, it worked, but there wasn't room for cigarette paper between the motor and the suspension.

[Tmac]

Hi Mark

I know the C-10 is a light for a full size pickup. I have another one exactly the same with a 4 speed that runs well I drive all the time.

I never considered a diesel for myself before. At this time, here anyway gas is a dime less than on road Diesel fuel. Gas here now close to me is $3.12 per gal. Having a diesel pickup is all about total cost not just fuel cost. Farm license for the pickup is $14.00 per year, basic insurance for the extra pickup is $10.00 per year added to my basic policy. So the low cost of fees are one thing is why I need to stay with the pickup. But the real factor of fuel is what is driving my current thinking. I now have a chance of getting VERY low cost bio diesel fuel. This bio fuel that I may get is the equivalent of stove oil or no# 2 diesel. It is a heavy oil and is a by product of the road fuel the local plant makes. If I get the supply it will be a lot of fuel. I would get it in 550 gal totes, with up to 2 per month or as little 1 every other month. I would have to take all that comes, basically when ever they called and said they have a tote full. This local plant produces 3 million gallons of road bio-diesel every year. I already know that this stuff runs well in my SMD. That is why Iam thinking of the FMD engine in the C-10. Plus I already own both engine and truck.

What I would really like to have is one of the early 80s mini trucks that were built. But finding one that doesn't have 300,000 mi on it for any kind of a reasonable price seems impossible. Then Iam not sure they would run decent on the heavier fuel, that is another question.

This is all in the thinking of "what if" stages now. If I dont get the bio fuel the whole deal is off, at least for now.

PS: If I dont get the bio fuel deal Ill just keep doing what I do now for gas, diesel and fire wood. Trade Tobacco I grow and some machine work I do for them. ) Its all about having enough cash to feed all the pigs right!! ;((

[Tmac]

Thanks Grani for the Trader pix.
I had no idea at all the size oft that truck. Its Big, must be a 1 1/2 ton truck. Simply amazing. Ford here in the USA also offered the FMD engine in a truck of that size. But I have never seen one just heard about where one was at.

essex pete,
Looking at the Trader pix this truck must have offered at least some sort of performance wouldn't it? The extra SMD engine I have is some sort of road engine as it has the automotive pan on it with the automotive type throttle on the later Simms pump and the FL head. I have NO Idea of what it is from it was just brought here to me in the back of a pickup.

[Brian]

Traders were up to 15 tons Tom. I drove both short nose and long nose versions. I once took a long nosed, six wheeled version loaded with 10 tons of casting sand for Fords, over a 2 ton limit bridge, by mistake.

[Tmac]

Traders were up to 15 tons Tom. I drove both short nose and long nose versions. I once took a long nosed, six wheeled version loaded with 10 tons of casting sand for Fords, over a 2 ton limit bridge, by mistake.

That is absolutely amazing all that with the 4 cyl Fordson engine???? Did that bridge a feel rubbery when you went over it? Was it still standing after wards?

I have a GMC 7000 with a 366 cu in gas and at 26000 gvw fully loaded it is kind of a dog on the Hi-way?

On my thoughts on the C-10 conversion Iam not to worried about whether the FMD engine would handle the loads. Its the anemic acceleration and top speed that would concern me. In traffic you need a little acceleration and at least a top end of around 70 to 75 mph. So what you think Brian? You drove them before, I have never even seen one before. ;((

[essex pete]

I might be missing something here but some of those traders would have carried the 6cyl 580E engine would they not?
They might have had a massive 75 bhp?
My father in law fitted a 4cyl jap engine (nissan?) to a range rover once. It was similar type of engine to a small 4 cyl Perkins. It was noisy, vibrated like hell, slow to accelarate, and slow top speed even with addition of overdrive. I realise you are looking at a different type of vehicle but I would have thought you would be building a dog??

[Brian]

There were two Traders, 6D and 4D. Wrights had one of each and even an ETC for carrying tractors and combines. The 6D carried two tractors and so did the 4D.

I had a Chaseside shovel on the ETC and that was a bit of a load for the old girl. I backed the shovel up the rams and never thought to support the rear of the body, When someone shouted, the front axle was 5' off the ground.

[Steven B]

Tom

I have a number of Thames Trader trucks so I can tell you a bit about them.

They fell into three categories. 1.5 ton to 3 ton. They had the 4 cylinder engines.

4 and 5 ton could be had with 4 or 6 cylinder.

7 and 7.5 ton. They all had 6 cylinder engines.

The larger trucks gross weight was just under 12000lbs and six wheelers where 17000lbs.

The smaller tucks with the 4D engine are quite lively but top speed is around 55mph. The 4 and 5 tonners would be dogs.

The problem you have is that you intend to use a tractor engine.

Firstly, a Mk1 engine is totally unsuitable. The camshaft and injector pump will make your truck dog slow.

A Power Major engine or later will have the correct camshaft but the injector pump has the wrong calibration.

The truck engines are more powerful, 62 hp, and produce their torque at higher revs. They also rev to 2400 rpm under load.

I am pretty sure you cannot re-calibrate the minimec pump as the governor will have different weights and springs.

I am not sure about Vac Gov pumps.

If you can get a Vac Gov calibrated to the truck specs a Power Major or Super Major engine will be more than capable in a Chevy C10 as they are the same as an F100 and smaller than the smallest Trader.

Use a F100 gear box. Bell housing may be hard to locate in the US. Some industrial engines have the truck gear box mounted up.

You also need to look at your axle ratio. 4.11 should be about right. You need to calculate for a top speed of 55mph at 2100 rpm.

Steve

[Tmac]

Thanks for that input Steve B.

Here is what I do have in FMD for potential installation.

Engine, a 65 or later industrial engine, with FL head, a later industrial pump, and automotive type cast iron oil pan. I have no Idea what this engine was from. Other automotive parts I have are another automotive cast alum pan, the injector pump with most of the engine parts. This engine come from a rare installation (for USA) of a 60s Ford truck. I do have a Ford bell housing that bolts to a Warner T-98 4 speed, with all the clutch parts for that installation. I have several T-98 trannies. I think I may have enough parts to do the job. But still haven't decided to do it.

The C-10 that I would put this in has a 700R-4 with a 4.11 rear end. To put a standard trans in this C-10 is a very difficult job due to the lack of the basic provisions of the clutch pedal being in place.

This whole conversion would be a LOT of work starting with the complete overhaul of the FMD engine I have.

What I may do instead of building this truck with the FMD is to just locate and buy a Chev-GMC pickup with the GM 6.2 diesel as decent rigs are available around and for most in the early 80s vintage most for less than a $1000 bucks.

The only reason for considering this conversion project in the first place was I have most of the needed parts. But just having the parts may not make a feasible project.

But until I know that I have this deal for surplus Bio-diesel fuel locked in I wont go to a diesel driver at all. There by leaving all the FMD engine to just be content to plow and mow the ground! ) I sure would hate to have to post here of just what a dog of a truck I just built! Right!!