Super Major hydraulic Woes

[Andyraines]

Hello all,

Wondering if anyone may be able to help/ point in right direction ref the hydraulics on my '61 super major?

Basically, when in position control I have to lift the quadrant lever about 2/3 of its range of travel before the linkae begins to lift, unfortunately instead of stopping at said position, the arms happily rise all the way to the top position ie i can't position the arms, they are either fully up or fully down.

I'm thinking dodgy control valve but interested in others opinions

Oh and the linkage creeps down with a heavy weight on on tickover/ when the hydraulics/ PTO are disengaged, had assumed that this was the main lift piston seals and was planning on replacing these when i have the "lid" off.

One more question, was there a transport position for the hydraulics as during a road run it seems a little excessive to have the PTO/ hydraulics pumping away or should this problem sort itself once the above has been rectified?

Thanks in advance for any help

Andy

[Brian]

1. Your life is out of adjustment possibly due to a worn Position Control Roller.

2. You may have a worn piston seal but it depends how long they take to drop. They are not designed to hold up indefinitely. Some do, others drop to the ground in a couple of hours. When the engine and PTO are running you should see the lift keep correcting when under load. The pump is not loaded all the time, it only comes under load when the "Knock Off" pin on the linkage is released as the piston goes back into the bore as the lift sinks.

All lift checks should be done at around 1200 rpm, not at tickover, and when the oil is hot.

Looks like it is time to give your lift a service, go to the site Home Page, select Fordson Wiki, use "fordsontractorpages" and "dotty" as the codes to get in and ther you will find an article on Hydraulics with an explaination on how things work anf some pictures.

It is not a bad job, just take your time and please ask about anything you have problems with.

[Andyraines]

Thanks Brian, much appreciated. As you say, sounds like time for a bit of an overhaul. Ref the lift dropping, with a weight say 500kg on it and the PTO disengaged it will drop within about 15-20 seconds. You are right though, it does keep correcting itself when under load.

I'll have another look at the wiki and get my head around what needs doing!

Thanks again

Andy

[Dandy Dave]

1. Your life is out of adjustment possibly due to a worn Position Control Roller.

Is that what has been wrong with my life all these years. You never know what kind of wisdom will come from the FTP's. Maybe now I can straighten up and fly right. Glad I didn't waste any money on a fortune teller. Dandy Dave!

[Andyraines]

1. Your life is out of adjustment possibly due to a worn Position Control Roller.

Is that what has been wrong with my life all these years. You never know what kind of wisdom will come from the FTP's. Maybe now I can straighten up and fly right. Glad I didn't waste any money on a fortune teller. Dandy Dave!

I just noticed that, so the major isn't the problem, it's me, just a few adjustments and a new roller and all will be fine once again!

[Brian]

%*&£"* Windows spell checker and auto correction! Sorry about that, but take it whichever way you like! But sometimes a crystal ball would be handy Dave>

You do indeed need some work on the LIFT if it drops that quickly. Carefully put your hand in the oil right at the bottom and see if you find any metal particles. A weak point on Supers is the final reduction and the gears break up. This scores the ram cylinder and one of the first symptoms of a problem is a dropping lift.

[Andyraines]

Ok thanks Brian, time to get it bak in the workshop and start investigating! Will let you know how it goes....

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hi Brian, Andy and Dave

Brian, very interested by your photo of the bull pinion with the hardening destroyed. You say this is a fault of the Super. What causes such a failing, do you think? Is it diff lock related if it doesn't happen on Diesel and Power Majors?

Best wishes

Adrian

[Brian]

There were changes to the size of the gears, the problems started with the Power Major but with the introduction of dif.lock it increased. When operating dif lock the idea is to put it in before you need it not wait until the wheel is spinning then bang it in. I know, we all have done that.

You also have to remember that the Super rear axle was originally designed to cope with 27hp, then Fords increase the power, put in dif lock and reduce the gear width.

Problems were really bad on the County Super Six, I have rebuilt a few hydraulics and rear axles on them.

Problems also carried on in the later County 954,1004 and 1124 only, on them stamping on the dif lock when the wheels were spinning resulted in two teeth being removed from the crown wheel.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Thanks for the info, Brian. As someone new to a Super Major, I will heed your advice about not slamming the diff lock in when the wheels are spinning.

[Andyraines]

Evening all, finally got around to getting the lid off the major this morning and set about cleaning things up and replacing some of the parts, bits that were obviuous were:

Control valve was very loose and slack fit in the bushing
Lift cylinder piston literally fell out of the end of the cylinder
On the cross shaft, the casting that has the plunger fitted to ( links to the hyd cylinder) had worn a groove where the position control linkage rest and flat spotted the roller slightly.

So,

Replaced the control valve and bush
Replaced piston seal
Cleaned up the grooving and follower wheel so it runs smoothly.
Replaced o rings as I found them

And on to the set up- armed with Brians wiki article- but I don't think I've got it 100% right!

Firstly, should the adjustment turnbuckle that fits in the control valve trumpet section go all the way to the bottom of the machined recess? At the moment this is sitting at the bottom of the trumpet "cone" as when I set up the 10mm gap for qualitrol I'm almost out of adjustment?

Secondly, when Brian refers to the "top stop" on the quadrant which bit does he mean- right at the top of the quadrant lever's range of motion, at the top of the slot that the adjustable stop travels in or do I set the adjustable stop to the top and the set the quadrant lever to that?

Currently, as set, in position control, the control valve strikes the face of the cylinder/ bushing/ retainer when the the quadrant lever is approximately halfway up its travel- assumiong that this isn't correct?

Anyway, a few photos might help?

Assuming I have lift arms positoned correctly?




Position for Qualitrol, am almost out of adjustment?



Quadrant lever halfway up its travel in position control:



Thanks in advance for any help!

[Brian]

13 mm from the stop that is formed by the little bent stop in the quadrant that stops the lever going right up to the top. That is when you measure the gap from the control valve to the ram cylinder.



I have used a key that is 13 mm



This is a 13 mm bolt between the valve and the cylinder face when setting Position Control.

Are you checking Position Control with the lever at the bottom stop on the quadrant?

Are you adjusting Position Control on the Position Control plunger that pushes on the back of the control valve lever?

[Andyraines]

Thanks Brian,

Your pictures confirmed what I had thought- That's the setting that I used at the first attempt today.... surely though the control valve when in position control shouldn't contact the valve body with the quadrant lever half way up the quadrant?

Have I got the lift arms set correctly as per photo?

Thanks again,

Andy

[Andyraines]

Sorry Brian, just re read your post!

Your wiki entry has the dimension as 10mm from pump to valve for qualitrol?

For position control, yes, control valve plunger, 9/16 spanner to undo the lock nut then a short stubby screwdriver to make the adjustment?!

[BearCreek Majors]

Brian, thanks for the pic of your quadrant stop & lever, all this time I assumed “top of stop” was all the way up to the bend where the two brackets are bolted together, yet another problem with my setting issues. Apparently the weather has been clouding my judgment, had 5 below on the thermometer this morn, good thing I got Granny to keep me warm at night!
Andy, obviously I haven’t got it right yet ether, but I would have to guess your turnbuckle is adjusted in to far as all the threads are used up.

Pat.

[Brian]

Yours is not the only brain that is not working, but it was cold and late when I wrote that.

Just to confirm, 10 mm Qualitrol and 13 mm Position control on the early Supers. !3 mm on both on the NP Supers with a 0,200 mm gauge in the Draft control rod on the control valve.

[Andyraines]

Hi Pat, I would think you're right about the turnbuckle being adjusted too far- however as it's currently fitted this gives the correct dimensions. I'm fairly convinced that the turnbucle isn't seating properly in the control valve trumpet. Will check out later this morning- luckily I kept the old one so I hav something to reference against!

Thanks

Andy

[Andyraines]

Evening again,

Cover adjusted and back on- it turned out to be 2 things mainly- one was that the turnbuckle didn't locate correctly in the control valve and the other was as Brian suggested a worn position control roller and more so the follower.

With the worn position control roller and folower, a couple of mm wear here does throw the lift out of adjustment quite some way- to the extent that when setting the position control I ran out of adjustment! Remedy was to tack a 3mm piece of plate on the flat section that this pushes on.

ANyway, all works as it should wrt the position and qualitrol although it does tend to keep overcorrecting and drop when pump is disengaged- all relatively simple checks to do but really need to get the oil up to temp first though so I get the correct results!

Thanks to Brian and Pat for your help on this one, it's very much appreciated

[Andyraines]

And just when you thought it was all going well....

Loaded the transport box up with logs at the weekend and set off home, hit a bump in the road and down came the lift arms sharpish

Cover off and seems the centre section on the cross shaft has rotated (stripped splines?) meaning a new cross shaft and centre piece.

The annoying thing is that I considered renewing the bushes for this at the time and decided against as given the amount of work it does it didn't seem like it was worthwhile.... benefits of hindsight!