1962 Super Major Hydraulic Oil and Gearbox Oil

[inferno]

Hi
I have a few questions which will probably make me sound like a bit of a dumbass to most of you but I am clueless about tractors and all mechanics in general but I do like old tractors and now I have one (could be dangerous!)
I have recently got my Super Major up and running (well actually after three engines and about £4,000 in labour for someone else to do it as I have no clue about mechanics it is going).
I am a bit confused about the gearbox and hydraulic oil. By the way are the gearbox and transmission the same thing?

I read somewhere else on the internet that gearbox and hydraulics all run off the same oil. Does this mean they are all one oil tank inside, as it where, or have I completely misunderstood. I see there are separate filling caps for transmission/gearbox (on the left by the clutch pedal) and for the hydraulics (behind the seat) so wondered why they had separate filling points if they were joined together.

When I got the tractor it had been sat for 15 years and the oil that I drained out of the hydraulic area (plug right underneath in line with the seat area) was like custard and have been told this probably due to water contamination. I noticed the dipstick (not me!) by the clutch pedal area doesnt look like it seal shut at the top, could this be the problem? Can you buy replacement dipsticks anywhere? When I take the gearbox filler cap off there is no oil to be seen so was this drained out with the custardy oil or does this mean there was there none in it when I got it.
The engine I now have on it is a Super Major (it had a '54 major judging by the engine number when I first got it) but has an engine number starting with an 'S'. I think I am right in saying this means it is an industrial engine. Is there anyway of dating the engine and what is the difference between industrial and regular?

Sorry for the random questions and general tractor ignorance, as I mentioned I am clueless so any explanations may well have to be written as if explaining to a child
One last thing, what was the original colour of the exhaust pipe when they left the factory?

Many thanks

[henk]

Inferno,

These are two compartments.
The rear end contains 40 L of oil and is filled at the back of the cover, as you say. You don't need a new dipstick.
The gearbox also transmission is filled with 20 L at the clutch side. Inside you will find the level.
You can use the same oil.
If your level on the gearbox drops and the one in the rear end get higher, you need to replace the oil seal between them. You will find out in time.
Now on the subject of what kind of oil to use there's been a lot of topics, so make a search.
The S on your engine means a replacement engine. There’s also a topic about this subject.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Unfortunately, if your oil has disappeared from the gearbox, there is only one likely place it has gone to - the rear axle. This is a sure sign that one or both seals that separate the two compartments have failed -not surprising, as they will be fifty years old. The seals sit on two shafts that pass from the gearbox into the rear axle - the upper one is the main output shaft from the gearbox connecting to the drive shaft pinion in the rear axle; and the lower shaft is the pto extension shaft that connects to the pto drive slung under the gearbox.

To do the pto shaft seal you need to remove the pto extension shaft from the rear of the tractor, then drop the pto drive housing; to do the gearbox output shaft you need to split the tractor between gearbox and rear axle. More info to follow if you decide to go for it.

The water contamination is due to condensation build up. For this reason gearbox and rear end oils should strictly speaking, and according to the manual, be replaced annually, but you'd have to be a Premier League footballer to afford that!

Best

Adrian

[inferno]

Thanks for replying guys. That has cleared a few things up for me. If it turns out that oil is leaking back into the rear axle would it be detrimental to the tractor if it was driven in this state. The reason I ask is that obviously I wouldn't have a hope of carrying out a job like changing the seals myself but I think my wife is likely to remove parts of my anatomy if I spend another few hundred pounds getting someone else to do it at the moment so if it wouldn't actually cause any damage I would leave it for now. I presume you couldn't top the oil up in the gearbox if it has leaked back as this would then overfill the rear axle when it carries on leaking. Hopefully it might be ok. I don't actually know if there was any gearbox oil in it when I had it. Only one way to find out I suppose. Again, apologies if these seem like ridiculous questions but I am learning, albeit very slowly!

[AdrianNPMajor]

Sorry for less than positive news again, but it wouldn't be a good idea to run the tractor in its present state. The gearbox oil needs to be maintained at the stipulated level to ensure that the uppermost bearings don't run dry. If they do, the uppermost rear bearing is prone to breaking up - I know because this is what had happened on mine, which caused the previous owner to park her in a hedge for twenty years!

By the sound of it, you really need to flush out the rear axle and gearbox and put new oil in. As a stop-gap, you could then transfer the oil that leaks into the rear axle back to the gearbox, but this would only be feasible if the leak is slow. If it is a fast leak, I'm afraid you are going to have to discover what your tractor looks like in two pieces!

Looking on the bright side, when you make the decision to go ahead with the repair, the mechanics are not too involved. The pto housing is a bit of an awkward s*d, but splitting the tractor between gearbox and rear axle is not too difficult and once she's apart, getting to the seal is easy.

When you've done it, you will have fixed one of the few structural things that need doing on a Major and you'll never have to worry about your oil levels again.

Best

Adrian

[inferno]

Ok thanks for that. Best I get some oil in the gear box and see if it stays there. Better to spend a bit a cash getting it done right than wasting what has already been spent by being lazy and wrecking it. Best get some flowers and chocolates ready for the wife. At least I can blame her, afterall she bought it as a Christmas present for me!
Do you know roughly how long it would take someone to do the job from start to finish?

Thanks again for the help.

[AdrianNPMajor]

The experts on this site would probably complete both jobs in a day, assuming you had the seals and gaskets ready for assembly. In reality, it will be done in two stages - dismantle and remove seals, then source new ones and the gasket that seals the joint between gearbox and rear axle housings (you will have to make a paper gasket for the pto housing; same for the pto extension shaft housing at the rear of the tractor) and reassemble. All gaskets should be seated with Wellseal. The large O ring on the pto tunnel should be superglued in position to stop it jumping off on reassembly and have a bead of silicon gasket added for good measure.

Best

Adrian

[Dandy Dave]

Welcome Aboard Matey! Looks like you are getting plenty of good advice already. How about some photos of the old girl???.. Err...Ahhh... The tractor that is. You can include the wife if you want to, but that is optional. I do believe while the oil is out I would take down the Hydraulic pump screen and clean that also. Dandy Dave!

[inferno]

That certainly is one advantage of modern technology like the Internet, you can get access to she'd loads of advice from very knowledgeable people from all over the world. I will put some photos up when I get to a computer (on my phone at the moment). Although no oil was visible from the filler cap of the gearbox when I undid the drain plug oil did start flowing. I didn't have anything to put it in at the time so don't know how much is in there. Will drain the rest in the next day or so. Is there anything in particular for flushing out the hydraulic compartment or do I have to do it with oil. Just hoping there is a cheap flushing solution! Another question, the dipstick by the clutch pedal, is that for the hydraulic oil level or gearbox/transmission? I thought it was for the hydraulics as when I first had the tractor the dipstick was coated in 'custard' like the hydraulic oil tank but on the dipstick it has 'tran' engraved on it. The oil that came out the gearbox wasn't custardy just brown.

[Pavel]

If I may add my 2 penn'orth to this absorbing series of posts.
Not too long ago I thought I had a problem with these slowly leaking seals; so I bought myself a 12v electric pump made for sucking oil out of an engine. This can be used for transferring oil from the rear end back to the gearbox every so often -- and works a treat.
If you do, don't get the el cheepos [my first went up in a cloud of smoke after 15 mins.] There's a good one advertised in the UK for 50 quid.

Pavel

[inferno]

Thanks for the tip.

[henk]

That certainly is one advantage of modern technology like the Internet, you can get access to she'd loads of advice from very knowledgeable people from all over the world.

You found the Fordson heaven.
There are guys here on the forum that were not bother by any knowledge and they just split the tractor do a gearbox repair and changed some seals with the help of other members.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Couple of photos showing the tractor split at the gearbox/rear axle join. Your tractor will still be on its wheels - I went a bit further because I had other issues to deal with.

The second photo shows you the location of the upper seal. I'll explain more when/if you decide to split her.

The third photo shows the pto drive housing disassembled ready for insertion of double lip seal. The flange on the face to the camera is where a large O ring sits. It's a s*d to keep in position when offering the housing back up to the tractor - you have to push upwards and backwards at the same time - so a bead of superglue overnight is a good idea to hold it in position, and add a good bead of silicon gasket at the point of reassembly just to make sure of a good seal. Works a treat.

Best

Adrian

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[JC]

You won't hurt your tractor if you run it with those seals leaking, as long as you check the oil level in the transmission and keep it full. You can use a pump to transfer the oil, like Adrian said, or you can use a hose on your hydraulic remotes to do it.
To flush the rear end and transmission, use a 50/50 mix of kerosene and oil. Ford says not to use diesel, because there is something in it that will ruin the rubber o-rings and seals. Don't forget to clean the hydraulic filter, like Dandy Dave said.

[Dandy Dave]

Also, There are no Dumbasses here. Many come mechanically challenged, but leave experts with advice to give on their Fordson Mis-adventures. Even some of us seasoned veterans of mechanical contraptions learn something new. Dandy Dave!

[inferno]

Thanks for posting the photos. It's good to see what the inside is like. Will get some oil soon to check if it is definitely leaking. If it is a couple of guys I work with have offered to help split it and replace the seals. They are both fairly knowledgeable about these things but neither have a fordson so all this info will be very useful.
Hopefully I will be an expert eventually!
Thanks again for the help everyone.

[AdrianNPMajor]

When you come to flushing her out, assume that there'll be a fair amount of gunk on the floor of the rear axle housing (see photo) - over fifty years it builds up little by little. This is really another argument for splitting her - you'll be able to see when she's clean. Would be a shame to put lovely new oil on top of sludge.

Best

Adrian

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[inferno]

I think I will take the opportunity to replace as much stuff (within reason) whilst it is split (assuming that I will need to). There certainly is some sludge on the bottom. Even though I drained the rear axle when I first had it a couple of years ago (water and 'custard' being the contents) when I undid the drain plug again a couple of days ago there was still some more water (probably a couple of mugs worth) and sludge coming out.

[AdrianNPMajor]

The thing is, these tractors were over-engineered. They were also built to be rebuilt - the Major is not a 'use and throw away' item. Do the work you are now considering doing and you will have a machine that is ready for its next fifty years of hard work.

As a 50HP tractor, your Super Major will still do most jobs that a modern piece of kit will do. Well worth taking her apart, in my opinion.

Photos show before and after. Spot the wrong bonnet!

Best

Adrian

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[inferno]

Hopefully it will work this time..




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[thestig246]

does anyone have any tips and tricks to getting the bearings off the drive wheel shafts, ive tried and tired but no joy, and wrecked the seal hub in the process

any help would be grreatt

[scoobyjim]

ive never removed one and not destroyed the seal. once seal case is off, get a solid punch about 12inches long and keep hitting. Or a set of pullers 3 ft long

[AdrianNPMajor]

What is your objective? To replace the bearings, the seals or both? If the bearings are still good, you need to remove them carefully, and the puller option, or using a workshop press, is the way to go. Trying to drift the bearings off the shaft will end in tears. The hub at the end of the axle means that you can't get a drift to line up on the task. The seals, which come mounted in a tinwork casing, will need replacing if they are the originals. The seals come off and go back on the shaft freely once the bearings have been removed.

If you do replace the bearings, the bearing cups in the ends of the trumpet housings can be removed by laying a bead of weld around the inside circumference. When the weld cools, the cup will shrink enough to become loose and can be hooked out.

Once you've got the shafts back in the housings and the large castellated nuts inside the rear transmission housing have been tightened, use wooden wedges driven between hub and seal tinwork to squeeze the seal tinwork up against the end of the trumpet housing. Use a blunt cold chisel to crimp the tinwork in place.

Best

Adrian

[thestig246]

Perfect some great tips there

Yeah i posted a few pictures of what i have been upto, but thinking i mayaswell replace it all otherwise theres going to be a evil seal or bearing somewhere that will come back to bite me

Many thanks

dan