solenoid issue

[maxnowell]

Hi everyone, new member here!

My 1957 diesel major is a working rather than show machine, and had a new solenoid fitted when I bought it about 5 years ago. Recently, the faulty solenoid clicking started all of a sudden upon trying to fire him up, and I've had to fall back on the spanner across the terminals approach, which just doesn't look good when anyone is watching, quite apart from the fact that I have to drag the entire bonnet off to do it because the loader arms prevent the bonnet from opening conventionally. I got a new solenoid vie eBay, which looks the same except that it has one extra spade-type terminal on it. After fitting it, and pressing down the starter lever, nothing at all happened, not even a click. Re-fitting old solenoid has returned me to stage 1. What have I done wrong? Or is it a faulty or incorrect new solenoid?

Thanks for any help to a mechanically fairly virginal tractor-lover!

Max

[JC]

Welcome to Fordson Tractor Pages, Max!
The extra terminal is most likely a ground. Make a jumper wire to go between that terminal and one of the mounting bolts.

[Dandy Dave]

You did not get a solenoid for a 8-N, 600-800 Ford, Did you? It will not work on the Fordson Major without modifications if you did. Dandy Dave!

[maxnowell]

Thanks for that, but it isn't an earth, it is to take a lead from, I think, the dash or ignition switch, IMMSMC, and which on my machine has a ring rather than a spade end, and clamps onto one of the HT terminals. Does that make sense? I think my new unit is faulty. Mr Fordson doesn't seem too upset, in any case, and is quite happy to start with the spanner method, and has been working very hard this week, hauling beech logs in for next winter's fire-wood. He did, on one trip, make a very loud bang from somewhere inside, as if something had broken, but it didn't seem to set him back at all. These old Majors seem to be able to keep on going whatever is broken, missing, worn,lost or leaked away!

[Dandy Dave]

On a late 1940's Ford, Though the NAA and the 1950's number series the solenoid is wired "Live" on one small post. The other small post goes to a push button switch by the shifter that grounds it out to complete the circut for the electo-magnet to work.

On our old Fordsons, The post is fed power from the switch on the starter on the lever start versions with the solenoid mounted up by the air cleaner. Your 57 should be this way unless it was converted. Some of the last Supers / 5000's had the solenoid mounted on the starter. For these all you need to do is feed power to the "S" post via a switch with a start position, or push button, to energize the electro- magnet.

If the solenoid you were supplied with has two posts, Ground one out and feed the power from the starter switch to the other post. if you only have one post then it is grounded internally and must have a good ground to the frame to work.

If it clicks, and does not spin the starter, something with the large posts is faulty. Be sure the larger posts are seated. Loosen the nut that holds the wire, and the nut behind it. Spin the post to be sure it is in the internal slot, and not stuck up on the insulating retainer. You will feel the post pull out and lock in when it is right. Snug the nut, but not so much as to break the plastic insulater. Check the other side the same way.

If these steps do not work, you must assume that the unit is faulty. Ground = Earth. Dandy Dave!

[Pavel]

To enlarge a little on Dandy Dave's post.
Firstly, though, it's worth noting that the wiring diagram for the Fordson Major is incomplete -- it doesn't show the actuating switch [Agriline part no. 5063] which sits inside the rubber boot on top of the pre-engaged starter. This is the switch that completes the energising circuit by, depending how it's wired up, connecting to earth.
Agriline list 2 types of solenoid -- a 'canister' type [5171] which is the more usual; and a press button type [5740]. Of this latter there are also 2 types -- one has the usual 2 low tension spade connectors, with the other one having only 1 as this uses the solenoid body as the earth return path.
The usual live low tension wiring circuit, Red wire, goes from the ignition switch to solenoid; solenoid to activating switch; activating switch to earth.
You mention that, when operated, there is a continuous clicking noise. This usually indicates a lack of volts or bad earth.
I can imagine it would be slightly embarrassing to be seen with arms stretched out like a scarecrow between starter operating lever and air cleaner mounted solenoid. Still, not as bad as having to extract the tractor from a ditch or bog.

Pavel

[DaveP]

Hi folks,

Could you please clarify for me... with the one spade solenoid, to make it spin the starter, rather than pushing the button on it, I connect the spade to the battery negative... is this correct? Just as a test... I'll be wiring it up through the switch under the rubber boot.

Ta greatly, Dave.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Max, I'm wondering what the loud bang was. If you could tell us where the noise appeared to come from eg engine, gearbox or rear transmission, what the tractor was doing at the moment it happened etc, we might be able to offer some ideas as to what it was. Loud bangs warrant investigation.
Might be worth starting a new topic if you're interested.
Best
Adrian

[Dandy Dave]

Hi Pavel,

Could you please clarify for me... with the one spade solenoid, to make it spin the starter, rather than pushing the button on it, I connect the spade to the battery negative... is this correct? Just as a test... I'll be wiring it up through the switch under the rubber boot.

Ta greatly, Dave.

If you are working with positive earth, you will need to connect one mounting leg to the battery + post, and then run a wire to the - battery post . Keep in mind that just because it clicks does not always mean that it is good. If the contacts inside are worn and burned, it will not complete the circut. Dandy Dave!

[Dandy Dave]

Max, I'm wondering what the loud bang was. If you could tell us where the noise appeared to come from eg engine, gearbox or rear transmission, what the tractor was doing at the moment it happened etc, we might be able to offer some ideas as to what it was. Loud bangs warrant investigation.
Might be worth starting a new topic if you're interested.
Best
Adrian

Adrian, Note the original post date. Your about 8 months late answering Max. Dandy Dave!

[AdrianNPMajor]

Doh! Thanks for the head's-up Dave. I think it's time to do this!
Best
Adrian

[Pavel]

G'day Max, I did construct a post reply to you, but somehow it just disappeared. Maybe something to do with that Chinese moon landing -- or though I don't think they are using Fordsons up there.

Firstly I suggest you make use of a multi-meter to check out the solenoid circuits -- or make up a test holder and bulb with a couple of wires attached to it.
In your post you state that the solenoid has an extra spade connector. Is that 2 or 3 of them?
Anyway, using your multi-meter or test bulb, check out the spade connectors. At least 1 of them MUST be isolated from the solenoid body. This 1 would then be the live voltage in. The other 1 [or 2 ?] could well be connected to the body -- but this is OK as these/this completes the electrical circuit to earth. Now check that there is continuity between the isolated connector and one of the others [or body] that will provide the path to earth. Obviously if your solenoid is mounted on an insulated panel, you will have to run an extra wire to a good earth point.
Having done that and wired it up, providing voltage should give you an audible click. Keep it 'live' and check continuity across the 2 High Tension terminals. No 'click' or HT continuity means the unit is faulty.
NOTE 1.
If your solenoid is of modern manufacture it should conform to ISO standards -- in which case it will have symbols, or a number, alongside each spade connector. Live in should have + [positive] or the figures 15 or 86. The earthed one should have - [negative] or the figure 85.
NOTE 2.
Modern starter solenoids, the big ones sitting on top of a starter motor, do have a third spade connector. This provides an additional coil wiring circuit -- but is NOT connected to earth.

Pavel

[Pavel]

Sorry Max, I haven't explained the things to do accurately enough -- the voltage live in terminal is NOT isolated from the others because it is connected to the earth spade by the internal operating coil.
To find it you will have to use your multi-meter set on resistance [ohms]. Place your probes across two spades. When/if you see a resistance of more than 1 ohm you will have found the circuit. However, one of the spades could be connected to the unit body and if that is the case then that one is the earth out with the other spade being the live in. If neither is connected to the body/casing then it will not matter which wire goes to which spade terminal. Any reading close to zero indicates that the unit is useless or, if there are more than 2 spade terminals, you have not yet found the proper circuit.
No doubt I will get some flack from DD because of being down-under here in Oz, but I plead drunk with pleasure because of the cricket.

Pavel

[Dandy Dave]

No doubt I will get some flack from DD because of being down-under here in Oz, but I plead drunk with pleasure because of the cricket.

Pavel

That must be some good Hard Cider, Apple Jax, or Corn Mash you have in the Jug. If you don't tell a light bulb which way the juice is flowing, It won't mind and will light either way. However, Too much Moon Shine, and everything seems to slow down and stop working. Even in the land Down under so I'm told. Now with diodes and transisters, Polarity is importiant. Something about letting the smoke out which goes back to the early days of Lucas... and continues even today,.. Hic.. Dandy Dave!

Are you following us DaveP

[DaveP]

Yep Dandy Dave, I've got the answer.... yet to try the solenoid again. Many thanks, DaveP.