Leak between the Rear End and Transmission?!?

maddyn99 · Post by **maddyn99** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:57 am

I knew things were going too well on my restoration. No major snags so far until this last weekend when I started filling her up with fluids. I filled up the rear end with 9 gallons of oil and it was a bit low. The transmission was almost bone dry and I put I think around 6 or 8 gallons in the tranny. The oil in the transmission started going down and the oil in the rear end started going up !!

I kept adding oil to the transmission and it kept going down while the oil level in the rear end kept going up.

Obviously I have some sort of leak between the two. I am under the assumption they are supposed to be sealed and separate. This is correct?

What are my options? Can i just fill the tranny up till it reaches full and run the rear end overfull?

Or do i need to pull her apart and fix what ever is wrong?

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:27 am

Maddyn99
I have the exact same problem with my Major.
Yes, all things being correct, they are separate compartments.

You have a seal on the rear of the gearbox, which would allow oil to pass to the rear transmission if it were leaking.

If you have the pto engagament gearbox under the tractor gearbox, there is a seal in there that could leak oil into the rear transmission also.

If this is where it is leaking, you will have to drain the oils, and then drop the pto gearbox out,and strip the pto gearbox to replace the seal.

This is where my Major is leaking. I'm going to be dropping the pto gearbox out this weekend.
Hope this helps.
Kiwi Kev

maddyn99 · Post by **maddyn99** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:40 am

Great, the chances of that seal being anywhere in the USA is about 1 to 81080808402938402398403298432098 give or take.

Whats the part called or do you have a part #? PTO gearbox seal?

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:01 am

What I do with all my seals, is go to a seal shop, not a Fordson agent. Alot of Fordson seals are not avavailibe, but the correct size seal is.
I will be dropping my pto gearbox this weekend, to measure the seal, so can then order new one.

Just this morning, I tried to get the decompression lever/ rocker cover seal, No Longer Availible. Went to the seal shop, had 2x on the shelf the right size, took them both $5.95 each.
Thanks
Kiwi Kev

Post by **Brian** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:17 am

Changing the seals in the PTO is one of the most difficult jobs on the tractor without the special tools. There were many posts on this on the old board and Henk drew up a special tool for the job.

The problem is that you have to fit two seals as oil is both sides of the seal, from the gearbox and the rear axle. The seals are up inside a casting and not easy to get to. The first one has to be fitted against the sealing lip and it is very easy to damage this. You will not know it is damaged until you fill it up with oil.

You need a tapered sleeve to fit over the shaft to guide the seal lip up onto the seal seating area.

Take it from someone who has, even with the special Ford tool, had to have a couple of goes at it sometimes.

maddyn99 · Post by **maddyn99** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:47 pm

Is this the seal I am looking for? and should I replace the bearing as well?

I also found this Tool on the old forums. Does this look right? I am assuming all the majors have the same seal?

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:11 pm

I may be missing something here, but if you use Rotella or similar fluid in both housings, why does it matter if it leaks between them as long as they have adequate lubrication?

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:18 pm

My power major does the same thing but not major leak at this time. I just pump it back to the trans from rear end as needed.

Post by **Brian** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:14 pm

Kim, The gearbox is higher than the rear axle and will be running empty.

henk · Post by **henk** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:55 pm

Gman,

I do the same. Made a tool for it. Works perfect.

I have read somewhere you can also use two seals opposite to each other.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:43 am

Thanks Brian, now I get it! A homemade gadget to recirculate the fluid back to the gearbox without overfilling would be a challenge. Going to have to give it some thought!

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:05 pm

Brian wrote:Kim, The gearbox is higher than the rear axle and will be running empty.

If I park my power major on a slope with her facing down hill will the oil move back to the trans?

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:15 pm

Kim wrote:Thanks Brian, now I get it! A homemade gadget to recirculate the fluid back to the gearbox without overfilling would be a challenge. Going to have to give it some thought!

Kim, my power major has hydraulic hoses attached to the front of my valve chest. I use one of them to pump the oil back, I just have to remove the end connection on the hose.

Foxen · Post by **Foxen** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:34 pm

Kim wrote:Thanks Brian, now I get it! A homemade gadget to recirculate the fluid back to the gearbox without overfilling would be a challenge. Going to have to give it some thought!

If you're not afraid of modifying things you could always drill and tap a hole in the side of the gear selector plate(preferably with it not on the tractor) about the same height as the max oil level mark and put a hose from there to somewhere on your rear-end and then make a pump with a pickup pipe below the level in the rear end that continuously circulates oil between them, once it reaches your maximum gearbox level it will drain through the hose into the rear end... Tho, nothing probably beats fixing the leak in the first place

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:49 pm

Or you could just fix the leak

OakLodge · Post by **OakLodge** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:29 am

I wonder how your got on with this job? I notice that the size of the tools that you have mentioned do not seem to correlate with the seal size that I have been looking at for a Nov 54 New Fordson Major Mark 1. Seal sizing in manuals I have looked at seem to be 89x54mm double lip seal? So the tool size that you have shown would not fit??? Wonder if you can add something to clarify this?

henk · Post by **henk** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:28 am

Can anyone confirm this who has done the job?
If it is wrong I will make a new drawing, when I get the correct measurements.

Dons62FSM · Post by **Dons62FSM** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:18 am

Luckily, I have not had to deal with this situation but I have experienced something similar which may be related. I once had an auto differential which persisted in leaking through the axle seals until I discovered that dried mud was blocking the vent on top of the case. It is very important that gearboxes ( as well as engine crankcases) be properly vented. Otherwise temperature changes will pressurize the case and force oil through seals. I think the Fordson front gearbox is vented through a hollow bolt which holds the steering column and the rear unit is vented is vented through a hole in the filler cap but I am not sure.

DaveP · Post by **DaveP** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:39 am

G'day folks,

I'll soon be getting my April 57 Mk2 split for the oil level fix.

Just want to clarify parts...

The gasket between the two housings. E1ADDN4507 seems to be no longer made

if so need to make one.

The PTO seal. Part I see is 81717957 which replaces E1ADKN7297A suits my tractor. This is available but quite pricy. But also could I use 81805050 replaces E1ADDN7297A Jun'63- Dec'64

cheaper to buy... and many web sites say okay for a straight Power Major.

The main drive seal. Is it 81717363 replaces E1ADDN2773

Look forward to your replies.. many thanks, Dave.

AdrianNPMajor · Post by **AdrianNPMajor** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:52 am

Hi Dave
You'll have to make a new paper gasket for the PTO housing. I made one out of an old kraft animal feed sack. Seated it with Wellseal. Worked a treat.
Re the upper seal (gearbox output shaft seal), it's available from Silver Fox tractor spares here in the UK for about £9. The lower double-lipped seal in the PTO housing I got from a seal supplier. Once you've got the old one out, vernier the shaft, the seal seat diameter and the width of the seal and ask your local dealer for a double-lipped seal fitting those dimensions. Quite cheap as I remember.
As for getting the seal out, the upper seal is straightforward. The photo below shows the seal assembly held in place by four bolts. The lower seal is a bit awkward. Remove the plate at the end of the PTO housing, then drift the shaft out of the housing until the bearings come off their fits. You can then get at the seal to remove it. It's still a sod to winkle out, but it will now come. The new seal also goes back in more easily with the shaft pushed back, because the lips of the seal fit loosely over the splined part of the shaft. Grease the lips before you fit the seal, so that when you reintroduce the shaft back into the housing the lips slide smoothly into place.
Hope that is helpful.
Best
Adrian

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AdrianNPMajor · Post by **AdrianNPMajor** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:42 am

Forgot to mention the large O ring that seals the tunnel housing interface. I didn't have a new one to hand, so I reused the old one, even though it had gone a bit hard. I superglued it into place on the flange so that it wouldn't keep jumping off during reassembly, and applied some silicon gasket to the O ring and flange before remounting the PTO housing. This sealed beautifully.
Best
Adrian

DaveP · Post by **DaveP** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:40 am

G'day Adrian,

Thanks heaps for your help again. I'll check with SilverFox as an alternative for all the bits I need.

Very best regards, Dave.

AdrianNPMajor · Post by **AdrianNPMajor** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:00 am

Hi Dave
By dismantling the tractor to get at these seals you'll get an in depth understanding of how everything works. Well I did! I found operating the tractor afterwards that I was able to picture everything whizzing round inside as I sat on the seat catching flies in my teeth!
Best
Adrian.

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