PTO running slowly?

[SimonT]

Hello.

I've come to top my field for a second time but the topper blades are only running at about 60rpm and so won' cut the grass. I've been told that it sounds liked the PTO is running too slowly. It is certainly not revolving at anything like 500rpm anyway.
Everything worked fine two weeks ago and I've not really done anything but unhitch to topper and fix it back up again.
Has anyone any ideas what I should check? Please bare in mind that I've only had a tractor for a month or two and before this new nothing about them so it's more than probable that I am doing something really stupid.
Any help would be very appreciated.

Thanks, Simon.

[Brian]

Simon, you really have not given enough information, is it a Live drive? If it is a Livedrive then it could be a worn out PTO clutch.

On a standard drive tractor the main clutch works both gearbox and PTO working off the same clutch and through a simple gear train to the shaft so there is nothing to slip so slowing the shaft down. If the tractor drives OK then you do not have clutch problems.

Simple thing to check, are you sure it is in gear?

If the hydraulics work, then your problem is perhaps, not tractor related as the hydraulic pump drives off a gear just behind where the shaft comes through the axle. Could it be a broken shear bolt on the topper PTO shaft? I have one on my topper near the gearbox.

[SimonT]

Thanks for your reply Brian. I'm sorry I gave so little info. I am very much a novice. I was given a 10 minute lesson on how to operate this 1959 Power Major and forgot most of it before I got on it again three months later!

The hydraulics work fine.

It has one clutch. To engage the PTO I depress the clutch fully, pull a blue lever situated below my left knee fully forward, then let out the clutch very slowly. The PTO engages about half way through the clutch travel. Once it's definitely going I depress the clutch again and put it into 1st gear (using the slow gearbox) and let the clutch fully out very slowly. Then the tractor moves forward and the topper tops.

Last time I thought the PTO shaft turned more quickly and the topper cut the grass. This time I 'think' the PTO shaft may be turning at a slower speed and the topper blades turning too slowly to cut the grass.

I'll get a manual for the topper and figure out where the sheer bolt is. I could easily be wrong about the speed the shaft turned the last time I fixed the topper up.

Does the PTO run at two different speeds by any chance?

Cheers. Simon

[Brian]

Hi Simon, you have a Live Drive tractor with a two stage clutch. Pedal goes half down and stops the tractor leaving the PTO and hydraulics working, push it the rest of the way and it stops the PTO and hydraulics.

Under the left footplate there should be a bracket around the clutch pedal and this should have a hole in it about 30mm up. This is for a pin to restrict the clutch pedal travel, so leaving the PTO/Hydraulics always working for times when you need hydraulics that are not being interupted everytime you change gear. Loader work was the main job, when you are shifting backwards and forwards.

It is also very handy when you have something like your topper on the PTO as, when you put the clutch down on a standard tractor, the inertia stored in the spinning topper can keep driving the tractor gearbox and you do not stop when you think you should. This cannot happen on a Live Drive (unless you are using the PTO with the pin in the bracket). Using the pin when not using the PTO reduces wear on the clutch toggles on the PTO part of the clutch pack.

The problem you have is most likely the PTO clutch is worn out. The rest of the transmission is built like a tank and it is very rare that this will give any problems. Like the standard tractor, it is a massive drive shaft and gear train with no weak points and she is only a single speed PTO. The hydraulic pump drives off the last gear on the shaft before it comes through the rera axle case so if the hydraulics work you have no problem in the drive train. However the hydraulic pump will not load your clutch as your topper does so the clutch fault would not show until you put something like it on the shaft and try to drive it.

This is not good news! The tractor will have to be split and the clutch serviced. Splitting the tractor is easy but parts for the clutch may be hard to find It is a complicated procedure to sort the clutch and it is possible that it may need more than a simple clutch plate. A complete new clutch is now available from after market suppliers but the clutch unit alone is around £750.00. If you cannot do the job yourself then you can add another £250-£300 on top of this for labour. Really makes you sick as we used to split and rebuild the tractor in little over an hour back "in the day".

Second hand clutches do come up on E-Bay fairly regularly but it is a case of "buyer beware". You could be paying £200-£300 for something that ias as worn as the one you are replacing. Not only do the discs wear but the outer case cracks and the intermediate plate suffers heat damage too.

Sorry, not a good message.

Just read your message again and you state "pull the blue lever forward" The lever should be back to put the PTO in gear and forward to put the PTO out of gear. Was it just a slip of the finger or are you really putting the lever towards the engine to get the PTO to work?

[super6954]

Hi
Just a stupid little thing I have seen on some pto equipment Does the mower have a shear bolt drive protection on the shaft coupler where it fits on the tractor pto shaft, or on the mower end of the shaft. I have seen these bolts break and there be enough friction drive to turn the equipment, but not fast enough to drive it properly as it slips round under load .

Could even be a slip clutch on the pto drive line to the mower. if not shear pin/Bolt protected depends on how expensive a mower it was when new . Have seen the odd one of those slip clutches not set right and slip also after a few hours use .
It may be the tractor but this has got to be worth checking to from my experiences using and fixing equipment for guys .
Regards Robert

[SimonT]

Hello chaps.

Thank you both for replying. I am now intimately acquainted with my topper and most especially the PTO shaft. I have learnt that, unless you have to it is best not to split the shaft. Luckily for me it turned out to be a broken sheer bolt and as the tractor came with a set of spare bolts I managed to replace it and went on to top a fair bit of my field (surprisingly slaughtering only a very small number of the 1000 trees I planted two years ago). I also took the opportunity to service the topper (which is a 5 foot Port Agric Cutlass).

Brian, your input has made me a lot more cautious about how I use the live clutch. Thanks. And when I said 'forward' I meant forward, towards me!

I am sorry to take further advantage but I am left with the following questions:

1) Where can I find an idiots guide to servicing the Power Major?
2) How do I ensure I buy the correct shear bolts? (Are they bog standard bolts such that I'm fine if I just buy the same size bolts as existing)
3) Why don't I get email alerts when someone replies to my posts here (even though I am subscribed to a thread)?

Again, thanks.

Simon

[Gman]

Hi Simon and hello to all. Look at the bottom of the first page on the forum. The repair and parts manuals are there. One thing to watch is to see if your oil is flowing out of your trans into the back end, a very common problem, my Power Major does this. Some do as I do, just keep a watch on it and pump it back into the trans. Others repair the seal where the leak is. Good to hear it was not your clutch
Good luck to all on your projects.

[SimonT]

Ah, your PM is the same year as mine. Can I see a photo of it somewhere?

I've looked at the site home page and can find lots of links to useful stuff. However none of them work. They depend upon the DynDNS service and http://fordsonlad.dyndns.org/ does not seem to exist any longer.

I can access the wiring diagram for the E27N.
http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/pics/ ... iagram.jpg
Is this likely to be the same?

A 1959 Power Major is also known as a New Major, right?

Thanks

[Timeee]

Dear Simon

The Owners Instruction Book usually gives the information on servicing your tractor. You can get reprinted ones from people advertising manuals, workshop and technical publications in magazines like Tractor and Machinery, or sometimes original ones come up on flea bay.

Don't use ordinary screws/bolts in place of the shear bolts. Shear bolts are designed to do just that to save far more expensive parts, (like topper gearbox) from damage. Go along to a local agricultural agents and ask for shear bolts, take an old one as a pattern. Some usually have a "T" on the bolt/screw head.

Tim E

[super6954]

Hi Simon
Glad it was only a cheap bolt . You are lucky to be on the forum here there is way to much machinery and tractor knowledge on here some days .
Those bolts should be marked with a grade. if metric it might say 8.8 or something on the head. if imperial size it may have a circle and lines or something like that marking bolt grade. you need bolts the same grade, some have a groove machined in to create the weak point. if all else fails the operators book should tell you as said . or search online or with a dealer for it .
If you get to strong a bolt nasty machine or tractor PTO drive damage is the consequence, have had a few mangled gearboxes here I fixed/replaced for guys in the past. 50 p right bolts or 700 quid parts / new gearbox instead of getting the right bolts can be the way that works .
Would i guess from your comment you parted the shaft and got the yoke timing out and it broke the pin when you started the mower .
Regards Robert

[Gman]

Ah, your PM is the same year as mine. Can I see a photo of it somewhere?

I've looked at the site home page and can find lots of links to useful stuff. However none of them work. They depend upon the DynDNS service and http://fordsonlad.dyndns.org/ does not seem to exist any longer.

I can access the wiring diagram for the E27N.
http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/pics/ ... iagram.jpg
Is this likely to be the same?

A 1959 Power Major is also known as a New Major, right?

Thanks

Hi Simon, like you when I bought my Power Major the seller showed a few things and off I went. She has been a great purchase for the last 30 years, used her quiet a bit some years ago and then she quit on me. She sit for ten years and I found this forum. Thanks to all, especially Brian, got her back in service. As to pictures there should be some on my old posts but I don't know enough on how to move them to here. At the bottom left of the opening page you can get the manuals, not sure if they can still be downloaded. I found by going to New Holland and getting into their parts section for the New Major, which is what the Power Major falls under I believe, you can see all the parts with details, I have even used the print out and went to the local New Holland dealer and ordered my parts without any problems. I would keep a watch on the transmission oil, make sure it is not leaking to backend. This forum is the place to get help on your Power Major.
Good Luck

[Brian]

Most people come straight to the forum when they visit this site, missing the Home Page completely.

On the Home Page there are links to the operators manual for a Major and it is all free to download. I checked a few minutes ago and they all work, We had the workshop manuals on a server but problems have caused them to disappear mainly due to people, not from this site, constantly down loading them and mucking up the content.

Remember, neither Oscar or I can afford to finance the site as we would like it, we make no money from it, and when we have tried to raise money by selling high quality items to fund the site, it met with little success.

There is a link to the Home Page in the announcements area at the top of all forums along with the link to the Wiki. The Wiki contains a number of items of interest built up over the years we have been running the site and some links back to the very early days. Codes to get on to the Wiki are "fordsontractorpages" and "dotty".

We have to use codes again to stop the "funnies" who again constantly attacked the site. Over the years we have developed our own strategies to control them but we still get up to 100 a week. Again, funding would help a lot but it is not there, unless, like other sites and magazines, we charge for advice, membership or flood the place with adverts. This the present management team will not agree to.

[whirly]

...

Remember, neither Oscar or I can afford to finance the site as we would like it, we make no money from it, and when we have tried to raise money by selling high quality items to fund the site, it met with little success.

.... Again, funding would help a lot but it is not there, unless, like other sites and magazines, we charge for advice, membership or flood the place with adverts. This the present management team will not agree to.

Brian (PM Locked)

You can, for no money up front and a small fee from the donations, put donation links on your pages from Paypal or any one of the European clone money transfer sites.

It doesn't take much page real estate and anyone who wants to donate would be able to do it easily.

Just a thought

PS - if you have a PayPal account I'd like to donate $100 for the cause

[SimonT]

Hi Brian.

First. Thanks very much for running this site. Resources like these are invaluable and for me at least, one of the best facets of the internet.

As for covering running costs, donations are one route, and what about small payments for manuals (I have bought manuals via eBay)?

There are definitely some broken links on the home page, all to the dyndns service. For instance try the top link to The New Major/New Major/Repair Guide and then pick any of the listed manual pages.

If these links work hopefully I'll then be able to work out how to tell if my engine oil is leaking into the transmission!

Thanks. Simon.

[Pavel]

Yes, that is a bit of a so and so isn't it, Simon, not being able to access the Fordson repair manual. But all is not lost; try downloading pages 31 & 32 of the on site 'New Major Owners Manual' where the 'how to' for checking the gearbox and rear end oil levels is revealed.
And as to relying solely on Ebay for manuals to allow addressing mechanical problems; I hope not. It usually takes up to a couple of weeks to get delivery of same, and in the meantime ones car, truck or tractor sits frustratingly idle. Long live the free, instant downloads that this site provides -- compliments of its administrators and members.
And, whilst I agree that freely given contributions to the administrators could, PERHAPS [?] make the site more comprehensive, it would undoubtedly cause more work for them, whereas I strongly suspect that they do it just for the pleasure of helping like minded people.

Pavel