Fordson super major tripping hydraulics

[chipmike]

Hi all, i am a new member here and a very proud owner of a super major (my first ever super major).
I was hoping to use her to power a hydraulic log splitter but she keeps tripping the hydraulics out and i have to go round pull the draft control lever up and push it down again to reset the hydraulics.
Is there anyone here that knows why this is happening and is there an easy fix?
Thanks mike

[Brian]

Hi Mike, welcome to the board.

Your problem is a bit strange but I think I know what you mean. Sometimes you loose hydraulic pressure to your external ram. the possible cause is as follows:

1. On a Super Major lift, when the piston is at the end of its travel it strikes a "Knock-off pin" which puts the linkage into neutral so that the oil is not constantly pumping and overheating. This is normal.

2 To overcome this, lower the link arms about 1/2" before pulling out the Auxiliary Service Valve. Due to small internal leakage the arms may creep up and the problem will occur again but all you have to do is drop them again. You could also arrange a bracket so the lift arms do not come up.

3. Another cure is to put the main control lever beyond the top stop on the quadrant, this should overcome the "Knock-off pin".

4. The small lever selects "Draft" (up) and "Position Control" (down). Always use any external service in the Draft Control mode. This goes for tipping trailers etc. If you use Position Control the lift (and consequently any external service) is controlled by the lift arm position. If the lift arms drop, the system will call for oil to be pumped to the ram cylinder to bring them back to the pre set height. You have diverted that oil to external services by the ASC valve so the oil will be sent to whatever you have connected to it. YOU WILL HAVE NO CONTROL BY THE QUADRANT LEVER. Say for example you have a tipping trailer on the ASC. the trailer will tip and there is nothing you can do to stop it other than de-clutch and take the PTO out of gear.

I have seen loaders demolish buildings and, in one case, a load of grain deposited on the Acle Straight because Position Control was selected rather than Draft Control.

[Spicklas]

Do you have new super major with grey wheels, and the newer hydraulics? After the tripping, do you have any pressure from the hydraulics? If you have a little, it sound to me like the pressure relief valve has switched off the pressure as a result of the pressure hitting its max (if you have the older type of super major with orange wheels). So what you do is taking off all pressure "resetting" the pressure relief valve. If it works this way, the best alternative for you is to try and find one of these:



The longer type of pressure relief valve from the new perfomance super major (can be seen under the external services knob). The newer type doesn't need any resetting, it keeps the pressure up when the pressure hits max. The valves can be very hard to find, but if you are lucky, you might find one on a salvage yard.

Correct me if i'm wrong...

[brockwood]

I am probably missing some thing but most log splitters i have seen have there own control valve with its own blow off fed from the tractor it needs turning down so that it pops and not the tractors it is probably set for later tractors that run at higher pressures i had that problem on the double remotes on my e27

[chipmike]

Thanks guys I am going to try and get another relieve valve for her and see if that helps as everything seems to be working right and it does look like a very old relieve valve.
Will try and put some pics up of here to show you later.
Thanks again.
mike

[Spicklas]

The problem is highly unlikely in the valve itself, but the way it functions. Changing the relief valve to another of the same type will not help. Also, while changing the relief valve the max system pressure should be measured, and should not be over 170 bar, otherwise you risk breaking your hydraulic pump, which is expensive. The adjustment of pressure should be done with the right equipment and only by someone who knows how it is done. How it should be done can be read in the workshop manual.

However, if you have a relief valve in the log splitter itself, do as brockwood said and adjust the relief valve in the log splitter. That way you don't risk anything happening to the tractor.

[chipmike]

I am going to try my friends log splitter on her tomorrow and see if she trips out before doing anything else just to see if it works as it should.
Thanks guys.
mike

[Brian]

None of the PR valves on a Super Major hold off the seat, they all reseat as soon as the pressure reduces. The long type valve starts to blow off in stages so it eases off at a slightly lower pressure before fully opening and starts to re-seat earlier than the original type.

On the early Major up to the Power Major the unload valve opens and will not reset until the pressure is released, so you had to lower the lever to do this. Not so the Super Major, as above, the valve reseats itself.

If you have a tapping on the ASC valve and put a pressure gauge on it you will find that the pressure will reach 2200 psi approx. and hold there. You will also hear a whistling noise as the PR valve dumps the oil. On a Super the PR Valve stops the pressure rising over a set point but allows it to hold at that point.

[Spicklas]

http://www.fordson.se/6B_Hydraul_Suplem ... 25-050.pdf Page 40

HYDRAULIC PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE
To increase the efficiency of the hydraulic system
a new pressure relief valve was introduced at Tractor
Serial No. 08C955882. Whereas the previous valve
was of the two stage unloading valve type, i.e.,
once the valve was lifted off its seat it would remain
unseated until the pressure dropped to approximately
300 lb./sq. in. (21.09 kg.,'sq. cm.), the current valve
is a conventional relief valve and will reseat after only
a very small drop in pressure.
When operating loaders and. other similar equip- ment, the valve is frequently lifted off its seat due to
shock loadings transmitted through the hydraulic
system during the raising cycle. Previously this meant
moving the hydraulic control lever down the quadrant
to neutralise the system or slowing down the engine
to allow the pressure to drop and the valve to reseat
before the lifting cycle could be continued. The new
valve reseats almost as soon as it is unseated thus
obviating this complaint, as the pressure will only drop
slightly and allow the system to continue raising as
required.

...

The correct setting for the relief valve is as before,
2,450-2,500 lb./sq. in. (172.24-175.77 kg.sq. cm.).
Care should be taken when setting the valve that
shims are not added to the extent that the spring
becomes solid. As mentioned previously, with the
current valve there will only be a slight drop in
pressure when the valve lifts and it will be found
when checking the pressure relief valve setting that
as the screw-down tap of the testing equipment is
closed the gauge will rise to a pressure slightly above
the setting, and then drop slightly when the valve
lifts.

Ok Brian, I understood that the old super acted in the same way as the predecessors (i also understood it from the bolded text). Is it really so that the old super don't need neutralizing or am I misunderstanding?

[chipmike]

I have tried my friends splitter on my super major and still the same as when i tried my splitter.
I have got some pics of the tractor still trying to work out how to put the up on here.
Will have to look into a fresh valve for the old girl and see if that works i have some friends with the know how and gear to do the work needed.
As soon as i can work out how to put pictures up will show you the tractor and the splitter.
Thanks guys.
mike

[chipmike]

If any of you nice young men and ladies could tell me how to put pictures up i would be very grateful.
Thanks Mike

[AdrianNPMajor]

Removing the valve is straightforward. Just unscrew it.
This is what the uprated valve looks like.
Best, Adrian.

[URL=http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

[chipmike]

I have found the valve and the one in your pic has a larger bolt head to the one i have here.
It could be a very old one as i believe the newer ones are like the one you have.
Thanks Mike

[AdrianNPMajor]

Shorter bolt head is the previous spec valve. Longer bolt head, as in photo, is the new valve. Shorter = 10mm, roughly speaking (I haven't been up close and personal with one recently).
Best, Adrian.

[chipmike]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f388/ ... 0bypkd.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f388/ ... f2hsxo.jpg
[url]ttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f388/Michael_Drewe/Image009_zpsp1yxfrpc.jpg[/url]

This is what i got.

[Brian]

All I can say Mike is that, having worked on the tractor specialising on hydraulic systems and having owned an early Super with the early valve for many years, I have never come across this problem with the PR Valve, On the Major it was quite a problem when tipping trailers and other things on the hydraulics.

Asw I have said many times before you learn something every day.

[chipmike]

My father has owned fordson super majors before and never had any troubles with the hydraulics and the problem i have has even got him baffled.
I hope i can sort this out with out any more problems or set backs will let you know how i get on and what i have done to sort it.
Thanks guys.
Mike

[guduell]

In your pictures you have the thin lever to the right, below the seat, inside the quadrant in horisontal position, that should be position control. Have you tried to put the lever vertical?

[chipmike]

I have tried the lever in both positions and at different revs and still the same guduell.
I have tried a different splitter and still the same which means the problem must be on the tractor.
Thanks mike

[Brian]

Mike,

have you done a pressure test? If your pressure is down it could be exasperating the problem. Have you got a PR Valve on the splitter? As suggested, if it was set a little below the tractor pressure it would sort the problem.

We were fitting McConnel ditchers, Bomford hedge cutters and all sorts of things on the hydraulics and never came across your problem but all had control chests with PR Valves on them. If constant pumping had been a big problem I would have remembered it. We also used to test hydraulics and warm the oil by blowing the PR valve constantly to heat the oil but obviously that was with the later valves fitted.

Sorry I was misleading you but I was speaking from memory and reading the information on the later valve and did not pick up on the earlier one although I should have done. I have very sore ankles where I keep kicking myself!

[chipmike]

The old girl is working fine now (touch wood) I took a trip earlier to the local tractor breakers and told him what i was after and he sent me out in the yard for the hunt.
I found lots of old majors in pieces and looking over them found the valves i was after got one and came back home put it in and my splitter still was not working but the old girl never tripped.
Went out in the rain to test my friends splitter and that was working perfectly, Now i will change some bits on my splitter (spool valve) and try it again thanks again for all your help guys.
mike

[chipmike]

Just a quick update on my super major and log splitter, I change the pipes over on the spool box for the ram on the splitter and it seems to have worked as is working fine now.
Will have to change the coupling on the tractor as got some seeping on it other then that all good.
Thanks for all you comments and help.
Mike