roadless axle?

[loufordson]

Hi guys, I have recently purchased a super major with a four Wheel drive axle. It doesn't look like a roadless though as it has drum brakes and and I can't see roadless on it anywhere.

I have added the links to some photos of it if anyone knows the make of the axle or any advice it would be great appreciated. As I would like to get a transfer box and try and get the four wheel drive working. Thanks in advance .

http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... z.png.html
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=3&o=1
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=3&o=1
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=3&o=2
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=3&o=3
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=3&o=4

[county654]

I ´don´t think it is a Roadless
Looks more like a County X000-4 to me.

Can you post some pictures of the lefthand gearbox and rearaxle?
County didn´t have a transferbox.

[Brian]

That is a Roadless axle but the tractor it is on is not a Super Major, it is a Roadless 95 from what I can see with a six cylinder engine.

[Brian]

[super6954]

Hi Brian
I'm not a roadless expert by any means, county is my conversion choice . But from my understanding the 95 was on a thousand series ford. It kinda looks to me like this might be a Heinz's 58th variety on a major or "all spare parts" as you call them . It's got 6 stud rear wheels, a 5000 series I understand the 95 was built on would have 8 wouldn't it . It looks to me like super or power major steering box and maybe fuel tank with a modified filler under the 5000 type dash with a matching bonnet if you look close. i'm pretty sure the rad and front castings major as well, from what I can see. I might be totally wrong but it kinda looks like the frame rails are more major than 5000 type mountings as well .
Somethings far from not right with this tractor from what I see in these few pictures .
Regards Robert

[Brian]

You are right Robert, Having looked closer at the last picture, it is made up of different parts but probably as you say an ASP. I wondered where the drum brakes came from.

[Roadless4]

From what I can see I would say that axel is from a Fordson Thames e4 lorry it looks like it has had some considerable alterations to make it fit under the tractor, must of been a farm/home made conversion at some point it's surprising what people will make out of all the left overs !

Huw

[loufordson]

Thanks all for your ideas I am going to try and source some new brake shoes and get the brakes working.

I've got the casting codes it looks like the gear box is 1957 (p29v) and the rear end is 1962 super major (f10h) the engine has a stamp 365 on right hand side and 703f 6015 BA on the left any ideas on the engine type and age?
I understand its a bit of a mid match of parts but the conversion looks and feels pretty solid.
I'll get some more photos of the tractor if anyone's interested?

[super6954]

Hi loufordson
I would be interested to see pictures of the rest of it . Who ever built it spent some time doing it, how did they do the sump to match the bell bousing bolt pattern . The one thing that would interest me a lot more is what did it have originally for a transfer case as you say you need to get one . Maybe it was never finished when they built it . I'm kinda wondering if it would even work if you fitted an "expensive" if you can find a good one, Roadless transfer slice as the ratio's between the tractor Differential and front axle has to be correct .If they are not correct something won't like it and could go bang or create other interesting possibility's for tire wear and stuff .
Even with it not being genuine anything in the conversion world, it would make an interesting conversation piece if you could get it to work and put the proper tin work back on it and tidy it up nice, and I'm sure more than just me here would be interested it updates .
Regards Robert

[Brian]

Super Brakes.



These are disc brakes.



Drum brakes on Majors up to Super.

Your gearbox casting is December 1954 and, as you say, your axle is May 1962. Be aware that a new axle housing might have been fitted in service so giving a later date. To be a "true" Super back end your hydraulics should look like the picture above not like this one.



Is your injection pump driven by a long shaft? If so it is a 590E from an industrial, combine or truck.

Where in the world are you? Any chance of pictures of the whole tractor, both sides and the rear end.

[loufordson]

Thanks for your reply Robert, the bell housing bolts seem to all be matched quite well with only one missing which I plan to replace! Yes your right I'm sure the ratios would be different my main aim is to get the brakes working and tidy the whole tractor up first and new tin work like you say. I have brought some rams and am going to manufacture some brackets so I have assistor rams and fit my pick up hitch. So plenty to be getting on with an lots of learning .

Thanks for the photos Brian very helpful and dating the GB for me , it is definately a super but havent got the screwd knob below the aux servuce outlet!! Fuel pump is mounted directly onto timing case!
Heres a Few more photos of the tractor

http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=3&o=0
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=3&o=1
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=3&o=2
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... ort=3&o=11
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... ort=3&o=10

[super6954]

Hi loufordson
It was only the very last of supers had that extra knob on the hydraulic top, the Blue greys (NPSM) like in Brian's picture , The motor you have is a Ford 365 cubic inch 2700 Dover or Dorset series built sometime after 1965 it looks like it's maybe a D series or early cargo ford truck spec engine, that info can be found online in a few places to narrow down the years and type , That info gets confusing and I don't remember it all .
I was thinking about that axle ratio and tyre sizes and the tranfer case. There are some pretty knowledgeable guys round this forum/the conversion board .Maybe somebody knows what the Number of teeth on the crown and pinion should be for the tractor diff and the front axle, so you could count teeth and find out if it will work, with fitting a transfer case and using that axle or different sized tyres to get it right before trying to find the Transfer case .
From looking at your pictures, as it's pretty well a custom tractor anyway .I would be tempted to keep it in the pre force 1000 series tin as it looks pretty nice like that, then paint it blue and white to match the 1000 series to. I was thinking about doing my 2 wd 6 cyl turbo i was building, But here in Canada it's hard and expensive if you find it, to get the donor bonnets and nose/grill to do it .
Regards Robert

[loufordson]

An that makes sense why mine doesn't have that then.
Yes your right it does look good with the 1000 series tin work I'll have to have a think as tin works not cheap here either lol .
Yes transfer boxes are really hard to come by, I don't know how easy it would be to manufacture something like that pretty had I would guess you would need something like a Howard reduction box to use as a pattern base. Yea good idea I should look to work out the axle ratios.
Been looking at photos of the Thames e4 lorry and it does look like its this axle! So least I can start looking for some brake shoes for it!
Thanks for your advice robert and good luck with your 6cylinder turbo.

[Brian]

Thames trucks did not have universal joints at the ends of their axles for steering.

The axle is actually designed from a GMC axle used in military trucks. It was originally built by an Italian Ford dealer who had a number of E27N Majors left in stock. He fitted ex-military axles and called them after his son Manual. Roadless started to convert tractors to that axle here in England eventually building them. The axle design was taken over by Selene.

You may find that military GMC parts fit that axle.

As for axle ratio, as you have an early Super the rear axle crown wheel and pinion ratio should be around 3.3 to 1. The engine is as Robert says, a 2700 Series, possibly a 2703. It would not be the same as a Ford "D" Series truck of the same era as this was an inclined engine to get it under the cab, it could however be one from a "K" Series.

You have Super brakes from the look of it so you need discs not shoes.



They are quite expensive. You also need actuating balls and springs as well as discs if you want to avoid brakes grabbing on. Make sure the adjuster at the bottom rear of the brake housing is free as you need this to set the brakes up.

I would also advise that you look in the rear axle before spending too much. Even with the standard engine, Supers were known for the final drive pinions and bull gears wearing.

[BearCreek Majors]

I agree with Brian on the axle, it looks a lot like the JMC axle in my Selene/Manual, except that the front cover looks to be welded on rather than bolted and the outer ball joints that attach the wheel hubs are detachable from the main housing. Makes me think this is the newer JMC with the fine spline axle shafts, I understand these to be the better units.
A picture of the transfer box bolted between the transmission can easily identify whether it is a Selene or a Roadless.

Pat

[super6954]

Hi Loufordson
Looks like you are getting some interesting answers, That engine could be an upright engine from factory like Brian said, or it could of been an inclined one and the sumps been modified with the bulge cut off the side and plated over just under the starter area or at the front same side I believe for some of them. The oil pick up is then modified to ,Those truck sumps are Aluminium construction as with the genuine upright sumps, Like mine has from a TR70 combine, maybe there is a slim chance it's a non turbo combine engine to . I have been involved in a few Aluminium sump truck engine alteration conversions over the years. The 2703 should be the 330 cu of the 2700 series( the first 6 cyl in that range) I have that in both my county 954 tractors but it looks like yours, not the old shaft drive injection pump type. my turbo is a 2704 ET with around 363 ci The other option could be that sumps been scratch built in steel there was rather a nice conversion on ebay the other day somebody did like that, 5000 quid would buy it . Or the other rare option would be a proper cast tractor sump from a genuine conversion of some sort. Can we have pictures of the sump and what it's made of please .
Regards Robert

[Roadless4]

Anyone noticed the Fordson hub caps on the axel ? Points more to Fordson than gmc ?

[county654]

I think this tractor has never been a 4X4.
A transfer gearbox will be more expensive than the whole tractor itself

[Brian]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 4388,d.ZWU

Have a look at these.

[loufordson]

Brian thank you some really helpful info, so for some brake shoes for the drum brakes on the front axle I should look for some gmc truck parts, any idea on what model of gmc at all or where to look for parts for brakes?
Yes I was going to look at doing the disk brakes and I have one small chipped tooth just like the one in your picture But hopefully it won't cause too much of a problem. Also the gears
On the drive shafts have some Pitting on the surface of the gears on the side of the teeth that contact, is
It worth swapping the gears round so they face the other way on the good contacting face? Thanks

[Brian]

Pictures of the brakes and hubs would be useful, also the knuckle joints. This is getting more interesting.

[loufordson]

I will get some photos of them Brian thanks

[loufordson]

Hi gents,
I took some more photos today of the axle, maybe able to tell a bit more from them
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=1&o=0
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=1&o=4
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=1&o=5
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=1&o=6
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=1&o=7
http://s665.photobucket.com/user/louis_ ... sort=1&o=8

Hope you find them interesting I'll try and get some of the sump etc soon thanks

[Roadless4]

It does look like quite an odd ball machine you have, but the axel does look the same as a Thames e4 lorry and is a very substantial axle for the tractor must of been quite a machine when it was fully operational, are you going to find a transfer box and make it work again ?

[loufordson]

I would love to get a transfer box for it but I know how rare they are and when they do come up for sale how expensive they are! However having brakes on the front is a massive bonus for me if I am able to get some brake shoes and set them up .