Rebuild with problems

[billy]

Hi guys,

So, I finally got the engine and all bits back on. I left her for a week, then today went back out to attempt the start. But the first battery was flat, so put a second one on, and it went a bit bad. It didn't turn over fast enough. then I turned it over on the handle, and it was rather solid, it could be turned but not very easy

The rebuild contained new bearings, but same crank. Last weekend she turned over happily, but left for a week and near seize?? Really?? Could that happen??

[rbbluegrey]

Just a thought have you checked water level had this happen before cheap head gasket filled bores with water?

[billy]

well i'd like to think not I drained the water out of her last Saturday, so, I doubt it would of soaked through? But I'll add that to the list for tomorrow

I am wondering about the crank getting rusty? Does anyone know how much is covered by the oil? The oil level is full, how far up the sump does that go?

[rbbluegrey]

Did you have crankshaft ground? Are the bearing caps on the right way this could cause crank to go tight and also have you had bearings matched up for correct size just trying to help eliminate a few things

[billy]

no, the crank looks pretty good, I left it how it was. I'm pretty sure everything is back together properly, when it first went back on the tractor it turned over nicely, a bit stiff, but I put it down to new liners and such. Now though its completely different, it just isn't right.

My main concern is the torque wrench I used, its about ten years old, and only test when new, maybe it was clicking too tight? but its the fact over a week it near seized. I think ill try turning over tomorrow, and see if it get better, otherwise, time to drop the sump again

[oehrick]

Did you use loctite or liquid gasket anywhere near the bearings / seals ?

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hello Billy
I'm sorry to have to say it, but under the circumstances you are faced with I would remove the engine and strip it down again. I would be checking that the bearings, including the thrust bearings, you were supplied with were not oversized.
When it comes to assembly, you need to start oiling from the stage in photo one.
Sorry to suggest such radical action but you need to be sure.
Best, Adrian.

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[super6954]

Hi Billy
Just wondering from your crank going rusty comment and the question about oil level, Did you lubricate all the crank bearings and cam shaft bores before you put the crank/cam in and tightened the crank caps down if not you might of stuffed the bearings/ cam bores with spinning it with no lubrication. also did you prime the oil pump when re fitting as spinning it with no lube might of done the same as not lubing the bearings, and could cause a partial seize up depending how long you cranked it. Did you lubricate the cylinder bores when you put the pistons in also , if not maybe the pistons are now a little tighter to but heat from running to hot usually messes them up .
on all the motors I rebuild i use proper white engine assembly lube on most moving parts, apart from oiling the pistons during rebuilding, as over time oil can run out of the oil pump or dry up on bearings and stuff. the assembly lube stays for a very long time, i got a fordson major motor I put together 2 years ago and never used, that white lube will still be there now for the first start,before the oil circulates properly, and i will squirt some oil in the cylinders through the injector holes to before starting it just incase.

The other thing that can make them tight is not lubing the rear seal on the crank. But that is usually tight right from the first start, it shouldn't get worse after the first try.
you say you tried turning it by hand to and its way tighter, it's not just the compressions come up, have you tried turning it without the injectors in to see if it frees up, if the compressions high and your starter puked or got bad connections that might make it hard to turn over. I have had the odd rebuild wouldn't start right off the key but just giving them a 20ft tow they fired right up, and every time after that they started. If I tow them I make sure the oils pumping right first though and it's got pressure,I also know it was put together right to before towing it and destroying something.
You got so much we don't know without being there, those would be my guesses to add to the others suggestions
( Edit added) looks like Adrian was posting the same things about the lube while I was typing .
Regards Robert.

[BearCreek Majors]

As Robert was saying its rather hard to attempt to guess what the issue is but I have a few suggestions as well. I always pull the oil pressure sending unit/tap to the gauge and use a soda bottle full of oil with a squirt top to prime the motor, it will probably take more than 1 full bottle and you can feel when its got most everything flooded. then I crank them over with the fuel off on the pump to make sure its got pressure before I start it.
We also had a fresh one go tight when we were starting it for the first time, when we tore it down we found #3 and #4 rod caps were on the wrong rods, (I have no idea who would have done this ).
Keep us updated.

Pat

[billy]

Well, today I'm having another play, I primed her like Pat said (that works well I think ) then, I turned her over on the lever, after about 2 or 3 rotations she freed up, now you can easily feel the different compression strokes!!!

However, when I put the starter on it did the same again I have taken off the solenoid, tested and its not great, only sometimes clicks in, also shes rusty as hell, and activating it manually its very notchy when you push the button in. My prediction is bad connections, so, agriline here I come...more money

[Daves rusty bits]

Hope the starter solves your problems Billy, a nice easy fix if it works. After I rebuilt my engine the starter whinged and whined, I think the extra compression frightened the hell out of it, now a couple of months on its settled down fine. Dave

[billy]

So...the solenoid solve one problem. she now spins beautifully. However, this is where it goes downhill after cranking her over I know that I got oil pressure (taking the pipe off the gauge), however, the gauge isn't working...so a new gauge is needed.

Also, after a while of not running and I checked the fuel lines. Well, number 3 injector is blowing back, so I am looking into getting it reconditioned, and so I will probable get all of them done.

Number four injector line is blocked up, no diesel was squeezing through...so I am thinking all new diesel lines just so its done. On the bright side, the fuel pump seems like its working lovely

So a mixed day...

[BearCreek Majors]

Billy, were the injection lines left off or open that they would have gotten plugged, if not I'd pop the cover of the injection pump and make sure the plungers are not stuck, remember not to let any dirt get in there. Good work so far, sounds like your working your way through it!

Pat

[billy]

hiya Pat, we I will say probably dust was able to get in them, although I bagged them, I had a little fumble when re-attaching them , I did blow the air line through it, but when it was on the pump no fuel pumped out
However, I then took all the fuel line off just to check the pump, and cranked the engine, diesel shot out the pump, and as far as I could tell the squirts looked even and all looked like the timing was correct. I might soak the pipe in brake cleaner and see if that unclogs it first. Agriline want £12 for a new one...but it probably a tiny bit of dirt giving be grief...

Yeah slowly but surely, I would of wanted it to go quicker and have her running, but a big deadline at work, and dark evening are winning over the old girl!!

[SkidRoe]

If it is plugged that badly that the high pressure fuel won't dislodge it, I would be surprised if brake cleaner would touch it. Immersing it in carb cleaner might help, but if the blockage is something non-organic, mechanical means maybe the only way.

I have pushed things out with pressure from a grease gun before, if you can adapt it to the tube.

Otherwise, a new one might be in order.

HTH - SR

[RH]

I was thinking the same S-R, that the high pressure should shove any foreign matter out.

Sounds like the injection pump has a problem to me.

[SkidRoe]

That is also a good possibility. I have had one cylinder go dead on a Ford 2700 series engine injection pump before.

[billy]

Sorry I haven't updated this.

So I dropped of the injectors at the diesel shop...they said the third injector was stuck open, and all the others leaked, or didn't have much of a squirt. So, there bolting on new nozzles for me! A lesson learnt for me! Next time ill just get them tested first!! But hopefully Tuesday ill have them back, so running by the end of next week!! HOPEFULLY...

[SkidRoe]

Fingers crossed here...

[billy]

Bad news, the diesel place had terrible week, and very little parts arrived, so, haven't got my injectors back.... more delays

[paudie]

Hi Billy, I had issues with my injector pump leaking from the bearings seals and decided to get it sent of to be repaired. But the money that I was been charged was ridiculous , so I bought a very good 2nd hand one for a fraction of the cost of what it would to have the original repaired, so don't be to hasty in handing over too much money till you check out eBay etc,although I did run in to a few snags regarding the various sizes of vacuum pipes which of course did not match mine etc lol.I have it going now engine rebuilt , gearbox and hydraulics and was bringing in timber with it today . The feeling of satisfaction you will get is brilliant. Stick with it . This forum here was just invaluable to me and the people on here are great .
Regards Paudie

[billy]

I know this has been a while, but... she runs!

I got my injectors back from recon... ouch, that set me back, but all worth it, the system was bleed up to the pump, so I thought id put the injectors in and try and start her, after about three set of cranking for about 10seconds she purred into life, smooth as you like! I only ran her for about 5mins mind....ive got terrible oil/water in the gearbox and then little oil in back axel I've been saving up for the many litres of the amazing fluid... (I'm only on an apprentice wage).

But, she ran! Hopefully next week ill have oil and give the old girl a longer running, and see what happens then!

Just asking, how long before I change the engine oil, what hours are we thinking??

[Brian]

Glad to here she is up and running.

About water in the gear oil or rear end oil, another site I visit is the Leyland and Nuffield site. Nuffield's are worse than Fordson Majors for getting water in the oil as the gearbox and rear axle are one unit so there is a large area getting hot and cooling down. This increases the condesation and contaminates the oil. The Nuffield Guru on the site is Rick Colbey and he among others, has been investigating ways to separate the water and oil, to date the most successful way is by heating the oil in an old Burco Electric boiler. In my youth these were something every home had in the days before washing machines and I curse the day I scrapped the one that came from my parents home when father moved.

Any safe way of heating the oil to a reasonable temperature and driving the water out will work. I am wondering about an old household water tank with an immersion heater would work. Could save a bit of money.

Do not try bringing it indoors and using your mothers/wifes/partner/girlfriends/boyfriends electric hob or cooking stove, it causes ear ache and possibly a ringing in the ears.

[Oughtsix]

I know this has been a while, but... she runs!

I got my injectors back from recon... ouch, that set me back, but all worth it, the system was bleed up to the pump, so I thought id put the injectors in and try and start her, after about three set of cranking for about 10seconds she purred into life, smooth as you like! I only ran her for about 5mins mind....ive got terrible oil/water in the gearbox and then little oil in back axel I've been saving up for the many litres of the amazing fluid... (I'm only on an apprentice wage).

But, she ran! Hopefully next week ill have oil and give the old girl a longer running, and see what happens then!

Just asking, how long before I change the engine oil, what hours are we thinking??

Great to hear!!! I have been following this thread closely in contemplation of whether or not I want to rebuild my engine. I haven't gotten to the rebuild decision yet but hearing your rebuild is successful makes me feel better with the thought of a rebuild prospect.

Congratulations!

[billy]

Not sure if I've got anything for heating the oil, mother won't be pleased if I use her saucepans, they were new at Christmas....


Glad to hear it oughtsix, this has been my first rebuild, and so far, although my little issues it been ok...ive learnt loads!

One thing I would suggest is purchasing an engine stand the can take the wait! I didn't, and at one stage the engine tipped with nearly everything back in.... my little finger took the full force... no damage to the engine luckily, but did get a nasty gash down to the bone and about an inch chipped out the concrete floor could have been worse!!! Ive already purchased a bigger one, because after the major I've got a grey fergie that needs a complete restoration....