Considering buying a 58 Major with a frozen diesel engine.

[Oughtsix]

I was going to try to test run the injectors without the head mounted. I put a couple sticks between the head and the block so I could watch the injectors but that left a lot of bending of the injectors lines to get them to mate up. I didn't think it was worth it to bend the injectors lines all out of shape so I didn't run it like this.

I get white smoke out of the engine without starting fluid. I figured this was bad compression? If I know the pistons, rings and cylinders are OK I don't mind spending the money on gaskets and injector nozzles. After I lightly honed the cylinders to get all the calcified gunk off... the cylinders look quite good to me. I could see no signs of scoring... but I am no where near an engine expert. The pistons themselves look new (They soaked in penetrating oil for quite a while). I figure that I wouldn't be getting white smoke out of the exhaust ports if the cylinders weren't getting fuel? So maybe they are getting fuel but the nozzles aren't atomizing it properly? I did crank the engine without the exhaust manifold on... I was getting white smoke out of all 4 exhaust ports.

I am thinking my next step is getting new injector nozzles. It looks like I have to remove the push rods to get the injectors out? I am getting pretty good at getting the push rods back in. Hearing her actually spit and sputter got me excited!

When I did crank the engine over without the head on I did get fuel out of the injector lines. When I covered the ends of the line with my thumb and pressed as hard as I could I could not stop the flow of the fuel... kind of a lame test but I figure the injector pump is at least putting out more pressure than I can stop.

Thank you for the help! Cheers!

[Oughtsix]

accidental double post.

[Brian]

Do not throw money at it until you know, white smoke means you are getting fuel injected and you are not getting enough compresxsion to fire it, you may find that once she has started and run that she will start OK. A tow start or a little ether may solve your problem.

Have you had the pump off? A common problem is that you can put the pump back on 180 degrees out so it is injecting on No.4 when No 1 should be firing. Simple check is to line the timing marks up and if the coupling clamp bolt is towards the underneath of the drive shaft you are OK.

[Oughtsix]

OK, here is the score:
Frozen engine for many years. I was able to get the engine to move then I took the head off and lightly honed the cylinders.
I have never had the injector pump off and I was told that she ran (I know the injector pump hasn't been off since then.)
Fresh belly full of Shell Rotella 50wt oil.
Radiator has been off so I can get to the head.
I had a bit of time so I tried starting her today. I was able to get her to turn over and continue running as long as I was spraying starting fluid in to the intake.
Traced through the fuel system... it was dry.
I put a couple gallons of fresh diesel into the tank and started priming everything with the priming lever on the pump.
I found there is a really slow drip at the ball cock on the tank. I am sure this is what drained her dry.
I traced the fuel through step by step until I got fuel out of the front most fuel injector supply line.
I double checked the tightness on all the fuel fittings then put the radiator back on and filled it with 50/50 (I was trying to start her without coolant so I would not mistake coolant smoke for unburnt fuel smoke). She still runs for as long as I feed her starting fluid?

What do you think? I thought I might not have enough compression and she might need a whole lower and upper end rebuild. Since she will run reliably on starting fluid maybe the compression is good? Could I be having a fuel injector pump issue? Fuel injectors? Is the compression high enough to keep running on starting fluid but not high enough to run on diesel?

Hmmm.... I am going to run out and see what kind of smoke I get when I crank her over now without starting fluid.... and shut off the fuel supply so the tank doesn't drain again.


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OK, I gave her a good really long crank. It started with small puffs of white smoke then progressed to heavier and heavier puffs of white smoke at one point I got a single kick like she was going to try to start. Finally I put the last half squirt of starting fluid in and she took off on her own and revved up what seemed to be quite fast. I was enveloped in a huge ball of black and white smoke mixed together so thick I could not see no less breath! (The exhaust manifold is on but not the exhaust pipe.) It took me about 30 seconds to get around to the other side and and pull the kill lever on the injection pump. She did seem to be knocking quite loudly... but I have no experience with diesels of this age.

I am thinking my injection pump is good.
I definitely need to get a new fuel ball cock on the tank as she drips when open or closed (where can I get one from?)
Because of the large amount of white smoke mixed in with the black smoke I don't think she is firing on all cylinders.
I think I need to get the entire rebuild kit and rebuild the lower end and the head if I want a running tractor????

On the fuel lever is UP fast or is DOWN fast????? Is up all the way maximum fuel and intake is choked????

[Brian]

Throttle lever is up.... Slow, down .... Fast.

Diesels do knock and clatter especially if they are not firing correctly.

Take her into the open, put the exhaust on, start her and let her warm up, after running for a little while it will give you a better idea of her condition than trying to make a judgement after she has been running a few seconds.

Check that you do have some oil pressure, even 10 psi would be OK for a short run.

You must have all your air cleaner pipes on and air being drawn through the cleaner as she needs that to control the revs. She is vacuum governed and must have those restrictions in place to allow the governor to work and avoid over-reeving.

You are getting there.

[guduell]

Check that there is oil in the crankhouse of the injection pump, mine was completely empty, I found another day.

[Brian]

Guduel,
There should not be any oil in the pump cam box. The cam box collects diesel that is allowed to leak from the pumping elements and it is diesel that lubricates all the parts in there. There should be a "pigtail" pipe on the outside of the cam box that controls the amount of diesel in there and if this is missing then lubrication will be compromised.

The only time oil should be put in the cam box is if the pump is going into storage, then Ensis fluid or its equivalent should be used.

[Oughtsix]

Thank you both for the feedback. I am learning a lot from you guys.

I like that idea of running her for a while and seeing what happens. I had no clue that there was a vacuum governor. Right now she is just barely together enough to get running. I have taken the head off and put it back on a couple of times so I was reluctant to strap everything back together just to take her apart again.

I am using the original copper head gasket. I am not seeing any signs of coolant entering the cylinders. I did not use any kind of sealer on the head gasket when I put the head back on. Should I have used a sealer on the head gasket when I reassembled her? I did knock off the build up on the head with a scotch bright when I put her back together. I am wondering if my low compression is due to leakage around the head gasket? If I can get her running without a rebuild I will probably order a gasket set and pull the head off and replace the gaskets from the head on up before I call her good. I am wondering if I should just order the gasket set now? I would rather wait until I am through fussing her to replace the head gasket if I can get away with some sealer on the head gasket. If I do end up doing a complete rebuild a complete gasket set comes in the rebuild kit so an extra set of gaskets is just throwing money away.

Should I order the $30 fuel shutoff valve from ebay or the $15 shutoff valve?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Tractor-Fu ... SwzrxUuX7U

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Tractor-Fu ... Swv0tVDDvo

[guduell]

Regarding oil in the cambox it was the one who renovated my other pump that suggested it to be good to fill up a bit below center of the axis and adjust the drainage accordingly. The motivation is as the new diesel does not smear enough. The camshaft bearings are always bad on these pumps he said, and they do not make new pumps. Could this be a subject of strong belief.

The recommendation from the beginning was as you say Brian, but would oil harm?

But i guess it should not be completely dry as it, to my suprice, was in my running pump. I guess the seals are leaking a lot more than the elements.

A third pump had water in this place and that is neither to recommend...