White Smoke Stalling Out

[anthonygos]

Also find this one....
http://ecatalog.wilsonautoelectric.com/ ... -8856.html

[Pavel]

Just a thought -- the injector leak-off pipe inside the rocker cover and the circuit to the tank.
A blockage, or restriction, will cause a build-up of pressure inside the injector body which will eventually restrict the operating pressure needed to open the injector pintles.
Rare, but it has happened.
Would it not be more cost effective to have your injectors cleaned and re-calibrated, if necessary, rather than investing in a new set? Worked well for me on my Super.

Pavel

[oldblue2]

This a an example of one of the listings I seen on E bay in the USA . D9NN9F593DA Ford / New Holland Fuel Injector 231 335 3600 4600 5110 7700 8730 $ 50 including shipping . Do any of you know the part # similar to this one D9NN9F593DA instead of Part number for the hole injector is 993157 . I spoke to one vender in Boson Mass. USA . They want $ 125 per injector for rebuilt ones . I asked for the starter also , they are high on what they want for a rebuilt unit @ 600 with a $ 100 core . I'm trying to do a little horse trading with him and told him I have two cores available and what would he give me for them ? He said $ 100 each . I mentioned I have one generator and one injector pump also He wasn't interested in the generator and I forgotten what he said about the pump . He did tell me they sell a starter with a solenoid on it for about $ 200 , that would have to wired into existing harness and the manual starter drive would be eliminated . I believe he said it was a Bendix Starter , any ideas on that starters part # or applications . Thanks again Anthony my respect for you has been elevated by your knowledge and experience , Mark

[anthonygos]

I'll try and have a look...!

[anthonygos]

Part number for D9NN9F593DA is 119904, in the listings D9NN9F593DA doesn't show Fordson Major's which should be E1ADDN993149 you see them sometimes with A... that is E1ADDN993149A, there is a set on e-bay for around £85/120eur not sure if they're will sent to USA. http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Fordson-Major-In ... 1598007615
Has for the starter check out the armature if that's fine and all the other parts of the starter are in good condition, just replace the core, around $100 in the USA.

When you call about injectors make sure they're know its for a Fordson Major (but am sure you have done that) and give them the year, that way you will have the right parts.

[oldblue2]

Anthony do you have the part #'s with the letters and numbers for the field coils and armature for the starter . I haven't been able to find them on ebay in the USA . Also I'm having the same problem with the injectors , not finding them in the USA other than one company that wants $125 per rebuilt injector what a rip off . I sent a message to the link on the injectors in Ireland but I haven't gotten a return message . He states that he doesn't ship abroad on his listing . I'd like to know if you would be willing to help me out . Not like you haven't already . Do you have a Pay Pal account ? And would you be willing to purchase these items and ship them to me ? Of course I would pre pay you for this and also be willing to compensate for your time and shipping . At some point in the day I'm going to check the valve clearance . I did use the starter with the compression release in the upward position . I have read about this controversial method of starting and bleeding injectors , I have done it the past with no ill affect and I have refrained from doing it . Maybe I was lucky in the past and now have been bitten . The very last time I had it running I think it was last week it ran like Sh-t . It is either the injectors or a slightly bent valves . I also had a thought that after I replace the starter or repair it . I can pull the injectors out reattach them to the supply pipe and crank it over and check them for their spray patterns . Respectfully Mark

[Brian]

Hi Mark,

I have been watching this subject from Holland and Anthony has been directing you along the right lines. Couple of points.

!. The same starter that fits the 3 to 5000 range of later Ford Diesel tractors will fit on your Major. It will have an external solenoid so you would have to fit a key switch ore something similar and do away with the hand operated system that you have. You would also have to find somewhere else for the tool box if you have one fitted next to the starter. This starter is a more powerful version and would spin her faster.

2. Bleeding the injectors is not a normal requirement of the Major, however, I have done it in the past but mainly on engines equipped with a DPA pump such as the Massey Ferguson tractor and Perkins engines fitted with the DPA pump. The later Ford 2, 3, and 4000 tractors over here all required bleeding at the injectors before they would start after a fuel blockage or running out of fuel, these also had the DPA or rotary pump.( I believe it is the Roosa Master over there).

The wrong way to do it is to slacken all the pipes one at a time, crank till fuel drips out then stop cranking and tighten the nut.

The right way to do it is to slacken all the pipes, crank the engine till fuel comes out, then tighten the pipes one at a time whilst still cranking, the engine should start once two injectors have been tightened and you keep it running whilst you tighten the remaining two. You may need someone to help operate the starter as you tighten the injectors. These must be tightened as the engine is still cranking.

3. If you have been using the de-compressor to start the tractor, you may already have damaged valve gear and push rods. Check these out before going too much further.

4. I buy items for people who need them in other parts of the world, normally for Europe or Australia. The freight is horrendous and can be more than the item is worth. In the past we have taken items in our luggage to Europe and Australia when we go. I sent a camshaft and followers to the US for a board member and the cost nearly doubled the purchase price so beware. I also bought items from the US and when they arrive here they are subject to a 20% tax plus a handling charge so it may be the same in the other direction.

[anthonygos]

Arm number is E1ADDN-11005-B year range 52/60/6
Coil number E1ADDN-11081-B " 52/
Brush Kit for coil 2400E-11057-A " 52/ (starter motor brush kit)

Am sorry I can't help you out in the buying and sending out, am not in a position to do so, and if I was the seller in Ireland will not sent to the UK, he maybe willing to send to you, if not am sure you will find a seller out there that will send them out to you.

Have you check out the armature out...?

I can't see any reason how you have manage to damage anything by using the de-compressor, that's what its there for...!

[anthonygos]

if you decide just to change the nozzle's here is a link to Amazon......http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/ ... ctor+parts

http://www.fixthatford.com/index.php?ma ... 37_377_380

[Brian]

Sorry Anthony, the de-compressor on a Major is only for turning the engine by hand to break the oil lock in cold weather as it states in the operators manual.

It works through the valve train and, if used to try and start the engine, can cause push rods to jump out of position, bending them and in some cases, breaking rockers and bending valves. I have seen it many many times and would not wish that on anyone,

[anthonygos]

Yes the book does say "by hand) but can you or anyone explain to me how by turning an engine over by hand will not bent pushrods and smashed rocker gear, and yet turning a engine over by starter motor will, and please let me make myself clear I didn't say its alright to drop the de-compressor to start it on full compression "on a roll".

[oldblue2]

Brain ; " It works through the valve train and, if used to try and start the engine, can cause push rods to jump out of position, bending them and in some cases, breaking rockers and bending valves. I have seen it many many times and would not wish that on anyone . " I can see this happening the push rods jumping out of position with a higher rate of revolutions from the starter motor . We Anthony , may be some of the lucky ones that haven't experienced this failure . I didn't make it to the shed this weekend . I worked late this last week for 3 days putting in 12 hour days and also this Saturday finishing up a clutch job on Acura RSX type S . I had 3 friends stop by the shop Saturday afternoon . We are building a Drag bike , a Kawasaki ZX1100 . We got it turn down and removed the balance shaft for 1-2 horse power gain . and we have an 1109 big bore kit with 12 to 1 compression , a ported and flowed cylinder head , a rack of Keihin 40 mm flat slide carburetors , some LUMPY cams , and an extended swing arm . Any way I was to exhausted to do much of anything Sunday , even though I had full intention of pulling the valve cover on the Fordson and checking the clearance . Michael from ebay has responded to my request and the fuel injectors and said he would ship them for 35 euro . For a total purchase price of around $ 170 US which is a great deal for me . I'm in the process of purchasing them today . Lets not quibble over the decompression lever . There are some that have had a problem with it . My thought on it is , they possibly had there valve lash lose and out of specs allowing the push rods to jump out or even possibly adjusted to tight . Hell I don't know . All I'm hoping for is that I 'm still running with a lucky rabbits foot in my pocket and haven't done any damage .

[anthonygos]

Main reason why push rods get damage are A valve stem is seized and so the push rod got nowhere to go, and B they're jump out because the clearance are too great. all that a de-compressor lever does is open up the vales, wasn't it one reason why Ford put the lever in the front so that it could be started by one man in stead of two, many farmers that I knew had used it that way and not damage anything, maybe you are right just down to luck, but I find that hard to believe.
We all have our own opinions, questions and answers that is why we have forums like this one, we are all here to help each other out, and there is no offense intended to anyone here.

[anthonygos]

Mark am so happy you have find a set of injectors and they're are on the way to you, the cost isn't that bad considering the price they're are over with you, please us know how you get on.

[super6954]

Main reason why push rods get damage are A valve stem is seized and so the push rod got nowhere to go, and B they're jump out because the clearance are too great. all that a de-compressor lever does is open up the vales, wasn't it one reason why Ford put the lever in the front so that it could be started by one man in stead of two, many farmers that I knew had used it that way and not damage anything, maybe you are right just down to luck, but I find that hard to believe.
We all have our own opinions, questions and answers that is why we have forums like this one, we are all here to help each other out, and there is no offense intended to anyone here.

Hi
lots of majors here in Canada have been started with the decompressor in the cold weather and have bent the push rods .
I worked in a breakers and had guys turn up with bent push rods looking for replacements. They kinda looked a bit sheepish when quizzed about using the de compressor to start it after things were explained to them , i have fixed a few for customers and bought some like it to for my collection. The last super I got had been run like it on 3 cylinders for so long it wrecked the bearings with un burnt fuel running into the oil pan. and the fuel injector pressure etched grooves in the top of the piston, radiating out from the combustion bowl. Some guys will say they have done it for years and never messed one up. others have repeatedly had problems until they stopped using the lever after being told not to do it and go buy a block heater or a 1000cca battery .

The only majors I ever saw in the U,K with decompressors was any fitted with industrial motors, or a very early one with the lever at the back, here in Canada it's unusual to find one without the lever on, unless the seals gone and guys took them off and put a core plug in the hole to stop the oil leaking out with the front mounted ones.
I wonder to if the clearance between the piston tops and the valves could cause it to with the open valve being down to far, like when a cam belt snaps. a motor will turn twice as fast with decompressor and starter. Nothing bounces or touches hard when turned by hand. whats that saying about speed kills .
Regards Robert

[Brian]

Robert has nailed it, The de-compressor just cracks the exhaust valve which leaves the push rod with slightly more clearance than usual. If turned at speed the push rod jumps out and gets bent. I have seen cases where this also jammed the rocker holding the valve open and causing it to strike the piston.

Whilst I agree with you, Anthony, about discussion on this site, we do have a problem when it comes to offering advice as we do. We, Oscar and I, are responsible for the advice or comments made on here and that is why, to avoid any possible litigation, we try and stick strictly to the Ford information given in their publications.

Also, the advise I try and give is the result of over 50 years of working on the tractors, getting the top qualifications and managing a Ford Tractor Dealer. Whilst I am not always right I do have a bit of experience to back my statements.

No offence meant or taken

[oldblue2]

It's been a while . I did receive the injectors from Ireland , and installed them a month or so ago . The starter motor from the USA NEW FORD TRACTOR STARTER 2000 2610 2810 3000 3600 3610 4000 5000 5610 6610 7710 . Even with 10 teeth and fitting a newer tractor it works great . It really spins her over now . I pulled the head off today expecting to see some slight marking on the piston tops and I found none . I sprayed the back side of the valves with brake cleaner no leaking seats . I filled the with brake cleaner the top the valves no leaks . I have the valve grind kit and head off so it's going to the machine shop to have the seats and valves reground . I'm really scratching my head on this one . When I had it running last it was popping thru the exhaust . That's why I was so sure that one or two of the exhaust valves were tweaked . I had checked the clearance before tearing it down and they were still in proper adjustment .

[oldblue2]

Installed the head 7/4/15 . The machine shop changed out the guides and cut the valves . He told me the valve seats were cupped . I'm a little disappointed in myself didn't see the info on the little O-ring that I should have changed out until I was reading in the manual about the valve clearances .O well . Reset injector pump timing also while I was doing maintenance . It was off also . She's running great now . She started this A.M. with out the normal tickle of starting fluid that I use to have to use . No more little rhythmic puff of smoke either valve seat or injector ? I haven't used her all day as of yet to verify on original concern but I have a good feeling about it . Thank you all for your support . Mark

[anthonygos]

Well done Mark, its always the simple things that get you...! but you got there in the end.

[oldblue2]

It's been almost a year since I have made these repairs . She has been starting Great no starter fluid needed , runs all day . Purrs like a kitten .

[anthonygos]

Well done......keep them going, nice to have feedback, all the best.