Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

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leeroy
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Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

1952 Major. Suspected water getting in cylinder. Started prepping for head gasket replacement and found push rod at back of engine bent, along with stuck valve. No pictures yet, but to rocker cover had obvious signs of water right above that end.
I've got service manual and it seems straightforward but I am lacking any special tools here.
Can this be done with basic tools? Never done cylinder head work before.
I do have a complete head gasket set, but cannot afford much more in parts.
There is no water in oil, and no oil in radiator.
Rocker arm had some surface rust.
Thanks for any guidance.

Billy26F5
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by Billy26F5 »

Only comments are to use spare cyl. head bolts to make locating studs and a normal valve spring compressor will do fine (It's just possible to do it without it but extremely difficult especially if you're alone). A replacement push rod is the best way, not available new so a breaker's is the best option. If the valve is easy to get out you might be able to use it again but be very careful and inspect it carefully to ensure it will do a good job. New ones should be available, but I'm not sure about that. Try to see why it stuck as well.
You'll need to grind the new valve with fine grinding paste and a hand grinding tool, and check it seals well.
The rust near there will be from the leak you mention. Some engines get it from sitting between runs and the humidity gets in and rusts things up. Not too relevant if it's light rust as the oil should prevent it going further once this is sorted.
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leeroy
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

Thanks Billy.
Went pretty well today considering my lack of experience. The third cylinder from the front had water in it. The exhaust valve that's sticking is the one on the 4th cylinder from the front.
I was hoping to have found something obvious like a torn gasket, but did not. It was a copper gasket. Maybe sealant failed?
My novice eyes did not see any cracks in head or top of block.
What else should I be looking for?
I'll get some help with valve, and unless advised otherwise by anyone here I plan on using the composite gasket I purchased from Agriline.

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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by mathias1 »

I would go for the composite gasket. Did you take a close look at the pistons and liners? While you have the head off, you can get it skimmed and redo the valves
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County Super 4 built on the Fordson Super Major

leeroy
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

Got the valve free and will address cleaning and check seating.
Going to pass on bringing head for skim. I'd really like to but have spent a lot of play money on a Ford 8N, a Ford 3600, and our New Holland 477 haybine.
So unfortunately "Hyacinth" our FMD is getting less than the best for now.
Which leads me to this: Is there any reason not to test her after getting new gasket with straight water for a short time?
If all gos well I'd drain and use coolant.
Edit: new composite head gasket does not match the copper gasket that was in it.
Matches in head bolts and oil passage but not coolant passage shape.
A quick internet search points to finish this being normal, but I don't like it. Please advise.

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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by Billy26F5 »

I don't like it either but that's the way aftermarket suppliers do things.
Don't use water even for one second time wise (not only running time) or corrosion could be serious.
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mathias1
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by mathias1 »

if you can't find the right composite gasket the copper one will do. I haven't seen a copper gasket next to the composite one. check the manual to so see if there are some special instructions on the copper gasket.
Make sure the liners don't move if you think to turn the crankshaft to inspect the liners. you can put 1/2" bolts and big washers to keep them in place.
As for the head: while you have it off, you can clean and lap the valves. In the head gasket set you will also find new valve stem seals.

as for the coolant: Water will always cause some rust in the block, so coolant is a better choice. What was in it until now?
Fordson Super Major New Performance
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leeroy
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

After putting in new water pump and radiator I had run it with straight water draining and refilling a few times to flush things out. I was getting ready to switch to 50-50 when I realized I needed to address water getting in cylinder.
I am confident that this was an issue before I went to straight water. I suppose if it's a liner issue I may have sped things up :oops:

On to valve adjustments: I think I understand the rule of 9 as valve #1 being open/ adjust valve # 8.

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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by Billy26F5 »

Correct on rule of 9.
It doesn't sound like a liner issue.
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

I&H manual says .015 for all valves, but digging around here I see .015 intake, but .012 on exhaust with rotators.
I'm assuming the rotators are just a means to identify the exhaust valves. This is all new work for me, so the terminology
Is as well.
Billy-you mentioned you don't think it's a sleeve issue. Do you feel like it's something worse, or simply that the head gasket was compromised?
Closing in on completing job. Picking up coolant later today!
High hopes that issue is solved.
Really looking forward to seeing difference without stuck valve and valves adjusted. I suspect they had not been adjusted for quite some time.
Any advice before startup?

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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by henk »

Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

leeroy
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

Thanks Henk!

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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by Billy26F5 »

It sounds like the gasket, a liner is more likely to be water in oil or both, but not only in the cylinder.
You should have rotator caps on your exhaust valves, the springs sit higher up than the intake ones. They're caps that rotate the valve to combat carbon build up, introduced effective 1257972.
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

Although I have not put Hyacinth to hard work yet I feel like the head gasket has cured her ills.
She started up fas as usual. Took her for a little trip in the woods. Did not get temp much over 170F, but was short on time.
Did recheck head bolts.
Plan on spreading some manure in the next few days to really warm her up, recheck head bolts and valve lash.
No water out exhaust and coolant level has not dropped. Both were noticeable before.
The front threads in the rocker arm assembly that hold down the valve cover are partially broken/missing.
This has kept me from tightening it enough to flatten out the new cork gasket, which in turn prevents me from installing decompression lever as its not lining up. I've made up a rubber seal with a flat washer for the front instead.
As long as spring and detention ball are installed this will be ok, right?
Thanks!

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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by Billy26F5 »

No problem in leaving the lever off. Some new 1/4-20 BSW screws will do fine.
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

So soon after replacing head gasket one of my fuel pipes was leaking. I ordered the wrong one, and have the correct one is a week out.
In the week or so the tractor sat, it has the smallest amount of coolant right at head gasket on exhaust side.
I am hoping this could be from not getting it warmed up enough before retorqueing?
Some other points:
Due to funding, or lack of, and against advice here, I did not have head skimmed :oops: Only put a known straight edge on it.
-This is the first time I've done a head gasket on anything so I may have made a mistake anywhere. Let me know if there are any thing else besides not skimming head that I should be looking at.
-Did not use new head bolts, just cleaned them up.
-Did not chase threads or clean out in block.
-Composite gasket. No sealant used.
-did use torque wrench and correct sequence.
Thanks!

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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by Billy26F5 »

You really should warm up before you consider there's a problem, as things behave differently once warmed up. No need for new head bolts, and if you made sure that dirt didn't get in the bolt holes you should be fine.
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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

Billy26F5 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:27 pm
You really should warm up before you consider there's a problem, as things behave differently once warmed up. No need for new head bolts, and if you made sure that dirt didn't get in the bolt holes you should be fine.
Sandy
Thanks Billy!
I'll post once I've got the fuel line.

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Re: Head gasket help/advice1952 FMD

Post by leeroy »

I did get Hyancinth warmed up spreading manure and then retourqued head bolts. Got a little on each bolt and now there's no weeping visible.
This is quickly becoming a favorite tractor.
Not that we have a large spreader, but it pulls it with authority.

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