1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

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Jm-baker
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1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Jm-baker »

Hi all,

Been a while since iv'e played with my fordson's. Have a 1954 FMD that started smoking a few years back and i never got around to fixing it.

Symptoms are:

White smoke, diesel not steam. Heavy under load and when rev'd.
Popping/misfire can be heard from exhaust (not loud, light pops and smoke intensifies with each pop) on idle.
Not been used for any real hard work for some years, but doesn't clear when run up to temperature.

Set timing on injector pump.
Flushed fuel system and tank, new fuel and filters.
Starts and runs very well, no sign of head gasket problems. Just smoke and lots of it.
If i loosen one injector pipe at a time to see if its "a" bad injector, the symptoms dont change.

What are your thoughts? Change all injector nozzles next?

Emiel
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Emiel »

Hi,

Most probably the opening pressure and spray pattern of your nozzles is not good anymore.

Most tractor dealers have equipment to test that and can set the pressures right. If they are worn they can be changed and must be set to correct pressure before fitting.

Don’t mess up with them without the right equipment. It can be really dangerous.

Rgds emiel
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1948, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

Billy26F5
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Billy26F5 »

Before fidling with injectors try a reasonable ploughing session, to give hard work to the engine. If it doesn't change after that the injectors should be given a test. Ensure you get the right nozzles if you need replacement ones.
Sandy
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Jm-baker
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Jm-baker »

Thanks guys. I will try to give it a good workout.

Unfortunately we dont have the land any more to work the tractor hard by ploughing etc. I will get creative.

If it is the injectors next, does anyone know a UK company that are reputable for overhaul of them?

Is it possible to change the nozzles without sending them off to be done?

Billy26F5
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Billy26F5 »

You need to set the correct operating pressure of 185 atmospheres, otherwise there will be trouble. That goes for new and used nozzles. I can't recommend a company, but I'm sure someone else will know of a good one. Get NL123 nozzles if your injectors have a green or yellow paint mark, and NL141 nozzles if you have red or blue paint marks (these are on the LH side between the bolts on the nozzle holder, near the Simms stamping).
Sandy
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John b
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by John b »

Where in the UK are you?
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Jm-baker
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Jm-baker »

Ok thanks.

I am in East Sussex.

John b
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by John b »

Quite a way from me unfotunately, if you were closer i'd have set your injectors for you
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Jm-baker
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Jm-baker »

Thanks for thinking of that John.

I will take a look around for injector specialists.

shepp
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by shepp »

Before you suspect the injection system take the pipe off from the air cleaner to the inlet manifold, start the engine but be aware that it will run a little faster, and see how it is then. This will tell you whether there is an obstruction in the air inlet system, this could be caused by a blocked air cleaner or by the pipe from the air cleaner to the inlet manifold laminating and the inner layer collapsing under vacuum when the engine is running, blocking and reducing the air supplied to the engine. This is an established source of problems with old pipes. Lack of air will cause all the symptoms you have listed. Run the engine without the pipe in place, don't be fooled by looking inside the pipe and thinking all is well and re-fitting it as a collapsing inner layer will only happen and be apparent when the pipe is under vacuum.

If the air supply checks out OK but you still have smoke go on to check the tightness of the vacuum pipe unions at the inlet manifold end and at the injection pump end, also check for any leaks or splits in the pipes. If there is any vacuum leakage on the pipes the balance between the venturi opening position in the inlet manifold (and hence the amount of air being allowed into the engine) and the fuelling allowed by the governor diaphragm and spring may be incorrect and the pump may be delivering more fuel than there is air let in to burn it, resulting in unburnt fuel and white smoke. Check the wire mesh filter on the pump and the inlet from the filter into the governor housing is clear as well, this allows air at atmospheric pressure into one side of the governor diaphragm, vacuum is applied to the other side by the vacuum pipes.

If all this checks out proceed to have the injectors tested, an intermittent sticking injector valve will cause the injector to hydraulic and inject a straight jet, but usually it is just one injector at fault and this is usually found by slacking off one injector union at a time, which you say makes no difference.

If they check out OK the next step will be to have the injection pump recalibrated and the phasing re-set., if the phasing is out you may think you have set the injection timing to the book but it will still be out! As the pump wears in use on the camshaft lobes, the camshaft front and rear bearings, and the camshaft followers , the phasing and amount of fuel delivered can change and vary from cylinder to cylinder resulting in smoke and lumpy running. Setting the phasing re-sets the injection point of number 1 cylinder to the scribe line on the pump bracket plate, the other 3 cylinders injection points are then set at intervals of 90 degrees, 180 degrees and 270 degrees to number 1 in the firing order. Resetting is achieved by varying the thickness combination of the phasing spacers between the pump camshaft followers and the pump plunger elements, spacers are available in minutely different thicknesses.

Let us know how you go on with the air supply test first.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

SvendH
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by SvendH »

Another thing you could try is retarding the injection timing on the pump coupling one scribe-line at a time followed by test running.
Be sure to make a note of where you started!! If this makes things worse ,go back to your startingpoint and try advancing instead.Never more than one line at a time! Even half a line can sometimes make a difference.
Its a bit time consuming but it helped cure my supers heavy smoking! then start saving up money to have the pump recalibrated as Shepp says :D

Jm-baker
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Jm-baker »

Thanks guys, will make those checks and report back.

James

Jm-baker
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Jm-baker »

Update:

Shepp, thanks again for the advice.

Took air cleaner pipe off and still smoking.
Checked both vacuum pipes and fitting, no sign of loose fitting or leaks (is there any way to leak check? Spray something over it and listen for engine tone maybe?)

From the amount of smoke, which is heaviest when rapidly increasing engine speed or under load, i am drawn to injectors still?

James

Billy26F5
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Billy26F5 »

I still recommend some hard work first, although it does sound like the injectors.
Sandy
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shepp
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by shepp »

If you are sure there are no leaks on the vacuum pipes then the air supply side of things checks out. I presume when you had the air cleaner hose off you checked that the venturi in the inlet manifold was opening and closing correctly when the throttle lever was operated?

Did you try SvendH tip of fractionally advancing the timing a bit at a time and see the results?

Injectors are generally very reliable and don't usually give trouble unless they have been overheated and the needles have blued and distorted. I have known injectors give ten or twelve thousand hours or more of service without trouble and still be operating well. If you have had the tractor a long time you will know if it has ever been overheated, and you will know how the white smoke issue developed. Did it start and gradually worsen over time or did it just appear and always be at the level it is? I am just thinking about what a very small split in the governor diaphragm might produce, usually it is uncontrolled engine speed if the split is big enough.

As you will be taking the rocker cover off to remove the injectors, firstly check there are no broken valve springs obvious and then check the valve clearances. If the clearances have tightened up over the years due to wear on the valve faces and seats, it may be that the valves will seat well enough to seal for starting purposes but when the engine is at running speed it may be that the engine is suffering from valve bounce and the valves are not seating properly, this would result in poor combustion and smoke. Stronger valve springs were fitted in 1961 to address issues of valve bounce and smoke at high engine speeds.

If the engine is still smokey after re- setting the valve clearances then proceed to remove the injectors for service. The original nozzles should recondition hopefully, if not new nozzles will be fitted. The last ones I had done cost about £30 each about 4 years ago. There are some specialists who advertise in Tractor & Machinery and Classic Tractor, one is SJ Wilkinson
for Lancashire and Cheshire, my part of the world.

If, after servicing the injectors there is no difference to the smoke then the injection pump will need to be removed for inspection and testing. It may be that the delivery valves are worn and have started to leak back, this will cause smoke, or that the phasing is out which will also cause smoke. The diesel injection service centre will test everything, recondition and replace worn parts where necessary and recalibrate and re-set the phasing of the pump.

Keep us all informed.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

John b
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by John b »

I have come across this before. As Shepp says there are several things it could be, the one i did i changed the injector nozzles, that helped a bit, but the main problem was the cam in the pump was worn and pitted, the front and rear cam bearings were worn and 2 of the rollers on the bottoms of the delivery valve lifters had siezed and had flat spots on them. I ended up putting a second hand pump on as it was the cheapest option and the customer wanted to spend as little as possible. I think the stronger valve springs can only be used with the later camshaft that has a single centre bolt, not the earlier 3 bolt fixing, but i may be wrong!
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Billy26F5 »

John b wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:12 pm
I think the stronger valve springs can only be used with the later camshaft that has a single centre bolt, not the earlier 3 bolt fixing, but i may be wrong!
Quite right John, the heavy valve springs also require cylinder head E1ADDN-6052H (from 1609839, but can be used on anything after 1425097 till 08C-960337) or E1ADDN-6052J (for NP engines only, from 08C-960337 onwards).
Sandy
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Jm-baker
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Jm-baker »

Thank you all for the great depth of knowledge and input!

I will update you all when i have performed some more tests.

James

shepp
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by shepp »

I am just trying to think of the less obvious things that might he causing this issue and which are easier (and cheaper!) to check before going full steam into the injectors and pump!

The stronger valve springs WERE fitted at the same time the camshaft was changed and the Ford recommendation is that if these are to be fitted to earlier engines then the camshaft must be changed at the same time. Earlier heads before 6052H can be machined to take the larger exhaust spring seats and the stronger springs can then be fitted to those heads if the camshaft is changed. Part number 6052H was carried over into the initial heads cast at the Leamington foundry after the transfer from the Dagenham foundry, these Leamington cast heads had the foundry mark "FL" for "Ford Leamington". The last head made part number 6052J with slightly modified guides can be fitted to ANY engine from the mark 2 onwards provided the right camshaft is fitted to suit the stronger valve springs, only that head was stocked for mark 2 and mark 3 engines after the stock of earlier heads had been used up, so there was then no option but to change the camshaft if a new head needed to be fitted!
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

Billy26F5
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Billy26F5 »

Here's a discussion about this that you had with Brian years ago: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7431
I would't expect dealers to be told part E1ADDN-6052J was for NP engines only without a special reason, once these parts were no longer in production it became far harder to find the right one which explains many of the strange combinations we see now. I would not be surprised if the stock of older heads lasted long enough to cover the period Brian refers to.
Sandy
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John b
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by John b »

Now i know what FL stands for, thanks Shepp! I built an engine using a Super Major block and FL head with mk2 crank, pistons, cam and valve gear. I tried to do as much research as i could beforehand to find out parts compatability, different pistons, valve springs and camshafts etc. The money tree hasn't been too fruitful this year so i decided to use what i had and give it a try with new shells, rings and oil pump. Got the head skimmed, put it all together and it starts and runs a treat. The only problem i had was no oil to the rockers, that took me a couple of days and an awful lot of head scratching to sort out but i got there in the end. Still not 100% sure why i needed to do what i did but it seemed to do the trick, if anyone is interested and can put up with my ramblings i'll go through it
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by Billy26F5 »

There are two heads you might find with FL, but on E1ADDN-6052H (used 1609839 to 08C-960337) it was only the later ones, what Brian refers to is E1ADDN-6052J (used 08C-960337 onwards, the NP head), all of which were stamped FL, and as expected when both parts were available, the new one was restricted to NP engines only.
Sandy
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John b
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by John b »

Hi Sandy
I thought i knew a fair bit about Majors until i started to rebuild one, i'm glad i took the time to do some research as the variation in parts surprised me. I think it would be quite easy to get in a bit of trouble without knowing what parts combinations can and can't be used together, and as you say, some of the aftermarket parts and listed applications for them are far from correct. I have seen the stronger valve springs listed for use on all models which is clearly not correct without making several modifications. I have done several Leyand 4/98 engines and they seem to have alot less parts options
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

shepp
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by shepp »

In reality over the years heads and blocks and camshafts and injection pumps and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all were mixed and matched on these engines as the tractors got older, and still the engines performed satisfactorily! I haven't had much experience of the BMC 3.4 and 3.8 engines, only ever owned a couple of Nuffield's and one blue Leyland and then only for a short time, but I would think that they are strong engines as well, probably suffering from the same wet liner issues as the Fordson if not protected by regularly changed antifreeze.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

John b
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Re: 1954 FMD - Time to fix the white smoke!

Post by John b »

I think you are right Shepp, probably more bitsas around than originals now. The BMC/Leyland engines have a tendency for cracked or porous liners as well as seals, the liners will drop and even break around the top lip
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

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