Next move for our 1954 Fordson Major Diesel

[leeroy]

This is the tractor we picked up for $200 at a house a few miles away. We also bought another Super Major for an additional $200, and an IH 504- also $200.
I'm going to use this thread for the 1954 FMD. It seems like the most likely one to run and drive.
Today I hope to get the starter off to see if the flywheel can be moved with a prybar. Unless it's safe for engine and valves etc to power it up and try starter?
The his tractor has no known history to us. It likely has not run, or at least been moved in 30 years judging by the growth rings in the Birch tree that was growing around lift arms.
There is fuel in the tank and the lift pump feels like it may be ok. The stop control lever does not pull back towards rear of tractor. Does this indicate the need to take cover off injector to see if rack and or plungers are stuck? Or should this be done before trying to turn it over? The decompression lever is free after a little PB Blaster and appears to work as designed. We do know that it is only to be used for hand turning.
One possible complication is the tractor has a loader.Will the pump need to be disconnected, or only if we suspect it is frozen?
Ok to spray lubricant inside pre cleaner in an effort to free it? Been spraying it from underneath and lightly tapping up, might just need more patience.

[John b]

Personally I would remove the injector pump before turning the engine over in case the cam in the bottom is siezed (or frozen as you say across the pond). If water has got into the bottom of the pump having it turn with the engine can cause damage, it's only 4 bolts underneath the pump and the pipes along with the stop cable. The shaft comes apart at the coupler but be sure to mark the 2 coupler halves before removing it as it can go back together 180° out. It will be alot easier to clean and free the pump up if it is removed as you really don't want any more dirt getting in to it. If your engine is an early one with the throttle rod going through the engine block be very careful that it isn't stuck inside, it's very easy to snap it, The butterfly valve in the air intake that the throttle connects to will probably be frozen solid too, this will snap very easily too if you try and force it, just keep soaking it with penetrating oil and gently try to get it moving. If you turn the engine over with the starter at any point make sure you remove the bottom of the air cleaner or the pipe connecting it to the engine, if water has got into the air cleaner oil bath it will be sucked into the engine as you turn it over and that really will spoil your day! You will be lucky if you can get the pre cleaner off without damaging it, but before you tap it up try heating it up but with a hot air paint stripping gun rather than a blowtorch; there is oil inside the air cleaner and a blowtorch may cause it to catch fire

[Billy26F5]

The fact that the stop lever won't move suggests that either a plunger (or more than one) or the rack are stuck. Don't use the starter, apart from potentially damaging the engine you're likely to damage the starter as well. I would check all levels first (after a general clean of the outside and anything else that needs it) and see if the fluids look ok, once they are cautiously use a lever to try and move the engine (decompressor open will help a lot for this), probably easier with the loader pump disconnected but depends on the design of the drive. Probably is worth checking inside the injector pump and oiling it, but don't let any dirt of any kind in and ensure any that was there is removed (and water as John says, although if the pump is properly sealed there shouldn't be any there). Beware of oiling the front rack bush as any bleed through will ruin the diaphragm which itself is probably worth a check anyway. Only then can you be sure everything is ok, also keep an eye for the throttle shaft as John says. I suspect the pre cleaner will come off ok but if not be careful as new ones don't work or are pretty poor. Heat has far greater issues as it can completely wreck a part by removing the heat treatments, so do be careful. Lots of diesel is what I would use, although it's probably easier to do that with the filter off. If you take the injector pump off check the timing mark is ok and place it so it lines up when the coupling clamp bolt is below the auxiliary shaft. Once you get the engine to run I recommend you get on with fixing the gearbox filler plug or you'll have a bit of a mess in the area as oil will pour out a bit.
Sandy

[Old Hywel]

Some good points above.
There’s a chance of water sitting in engine sump, gearbox, back end. Carefully slacken each drain plug, any water will drain off first.

[leeroy]

Thanks for the replies!
Is injector pump removal the only way to be sure cam is not seized? Can I make a judgement by condition of rack and plungers?
I ask for two reasons, the first being the loader frame will make it a bit of a challenge, and the second reason is my confidence level.
I will crack drain plugs. The oil condition and levels looked good. The motor oil looked surprisingly clean, maybe that's given me false hope and water has settled.
Sandy the transmission plug that cracked has a replacement on the way. Thanks for your previous explanation on tackling that job.
I did try to pry engine over before my post here. At the front coupler for hydraulic pump for loader. For better or worse there was no movement at all.
While puttering around on it I aired up the tires. I was surprised they held air. Then I heard a slight leak and the left rear tire popped and gushed out the calcium! Rinsed off tractor as best I could without running water.

[John b]

You can just turn it over with the pump connected, just have someone watch the shaft while you turn it to make sure it is turning OK, but as you say, clean it up and free the rack first. To turn the motor over the only safe way to do it is to remove the starter and pry the teeth on the flywheel, you risk breaking something trying to move it from the front. If it is frozen you will probably have to remove the injectors and pour something down the bores. There are various opinions on what works best from coca cola, diesel or sea foam to acetone/atf mix, the choice is yours, but trying to turn a frozen engine dry will damage the bores and rings even more if they are rusted together

[Billy26F5]

You should be able to tell what is stuck, if the rack moves a few thou then it will be a plunger or more, if it doesn't move at all the rack is stuck. Oil and diesel are both worth having in the pump, Brian also recommended ATF but can't say anything there as I've never tried that yet (still haven't dealt with a stuck pump myself although I will be in a wee bit). A good internal clean is important, it will enable you to ensure that the cambox is full of oil and therefore working properly. Whatever you put into the bores you will have to rebnew the oil if you need that so worth thinking about. A squirt of engine oil is worth putting in anyway, it will also allow you to see what the injectors look like. I've always been a bit concerned about levering on the ring gear as it's not incredibly strong either and also it can cause damage which needs to be removed (a big job as the engine would have to come off for that). Once you get it turning get a bit of oil in the bores again and turn it over for a bit to allow everything to oil up again. If you can look in through the injector holes it should give you an idea of the condition. Pics will help but that's not very easy for the bores. Hopefully the head shouldn't need to come off but if you get nowhere then you'll need to do that. Have you had a look at the Super yet? Serial numbrers for both would be great.
Sandy

[leeroy]

Good news-the pre cleaner came off with little to no new damage. I say new because it looks like someone may have banged it up in the past but not too bad. Unfortunately it was too dark to do much more. Now I can remove the hood, and therefore the valve cover. I guess injectors need to come out so I can oil the cylinders. Injector pump inspection too! Pictures will be posted as we make progress.
The throttle linkage through the engine is free. Will check out butterfly intake when we get hood off.
Sandy, the serial number on the bulkhead is 1295044. 5/1954 correct?
Serial for the Super is in another post I started.
Have not cracked drain plugs yet for water check. Here's a picture of the engine oil.

[Billy26F5]

Good work, yes the injectors need to come off to put oil in the bores. Glad the throttle is free, should hopefully make it easier to get it running. I wouldn't say the oil is very clean but it looks quite ok. Feel and smell are important too, if it feels thin or smells old or of diesel you should change it anyway, if there's diesel there you'll need to investigate for leaks in the leak off line or the lift pump diaphragm. Particles in the oil are also suspicious. You are correct about the serial number, this one should have wide pulleys and a timing pointer and no apperture in the sump bell housing. The rocker cover can be removed without removing the bonnet on ordinary tractors but I assume the loader prevents that here.
Sandy

[leeroy]

. I cracked drain plugs and there was no water in motor oil. I took side cover of injector and it was surprisingly clean and the rack now moves as it should.
Then I ran out of daylight. I will get better pictures this weekend. This loader is definitely coming off. The coupling is two roller chains side by side and is very rusty.Hopefully valve train inspection this weekend..


The second picture is the coupling for the loaders front hydraulic post. Edit: too blurry.
I took the banjo fitting for the pigtail off the bottom of the injector but nothing came out.

[Billy26F5]

I wouldn't be too bothered about that, I've seen others like it. As for the injector pump get a good bit of engine oil in there before you refit the oil and pig tail, therefore lubricating the pump. Diesel will bleed through but that's nothing to worry about. The pic is fine, I can see the chain and the wide pulley.
Sandy

[leeroy]

Very windy today so I've put off removing valve cover fearing dust, dirt, rust, etc getting in.
While down there I decided to isolate front pump from tractor.Seperated at the coupler and the hydraulic pump spins freely by hand.
The shaft that comes through tractor is rusted hard in hole of tractor frame. I'm trying to seperate it from crank side, just two bolts, but that piece is stuck on. Going out for some more penetrating oil.

[Billy26F5]

That was a very sound decision. I've seen too many not taking such precautions with expensive results. Good to know that the pump turns well, diesel and oil could help a lot too for the drive shaft. Maybe that's what's holding the engine! The two bolts you mention are for the crank pulley remover, these became three further out with the narrow pulleys, and were also for mounting drives for hydraulic pumps and similar things as you have here.
Sandy

[leeroy]

For some reason this Major has two couplings used. The roller chain on the radiator side, and the one with 4 bolts on the pump side.
I disconnected it on the pump side. It has soaked overnight, will see if I can slide shaft and hub forward away from pulley. It is really built up with rust around that shaft. I think with patience and lubricant we will get it. May be a sawzall involved too.
We are in a drought with fire warnings so heat is out for today at least.
Sandy you mentioned disconnecting the pump-thanks! It seems too easy that this could be why the engine appears seized, but I certainly hope it is!
I assume even if this was the problem, my guess is to still get some oil in the bores, proceed slowly and watch injector pump shaft moves as John suggests?
Will post more pictures and questions later today. A cold morning here at -4C !

[Billy26F5]

That to me sounds good. I never recommend heat as it changes things in bad ways if not applied correctly in a heat treatment, all the worse in drought (we'd had it until a few weeks ago and it was combined with hellish heat which is even worse). I wish our temperature were a bit cooler but can't complain about water shortage for now. We'll see how long it lasts, hopefully we'll get some ploughing done soon.
Sandy

[leeroy]

I don't think this picture shows how bad this shaft is rusted. Did not do much with the shaft. Spent time removing fenders and started removing loader.


<a href='https://postimg.cc/14CK0P9d' target='_blank'><img src='https://i.postimg.cc/14CK0P9d/IMG-20241110-173532.jpg' border='0' alt='IMG-20241110-173532'/></a>

[Billy26F5]

I can't really see the rust, like the look of those radiator shutters. Those mudguards need serious work, and I can say from experience that you definitely want them. Repro ones are really bad and hellish expensive, and not having them is not great. Lots of welding there, it took us two months to fix Billy's one (posted about it at the time, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8339).
Sandy

[leeroy]

Here is a better picture of the rusted shaft.

I'll be cutting it out and removing loader this weekend if all goes well. The drain hole by that shaft had been plugged up and I assume was what caused the shaft to rust so much. It is solid in the hole it passes through.
Thanks for the link on welding your fenders Sandy. A friend of mine is a great welder and trades welding for our rough cut lumber. I think I will see if he will do it. Still learning here and not sure how I'd do with it.
I was glad to see the shutters intact too, and in my opinion the radiator looks good as well. Have not filled it yet- will need bottom hose.

[Billy26F5]

Sounds like a relief, pitty that shaft has had it but if that's all it's a very good find. Many shutters were removed and of those that weren't most are seized solid or badly corroded. Welding thin metal is difficult for experts, and as you see I can't claim to be one, hopefully your friend can help you if you decide to have a go yourself.
Sandy

[leeroy]

So I cut that shaft off and while trying to pry the hub off the pulley I got some movement! So I ended up prying on that chain coupler and got it moving a little bit in both directions. Was able to do same with fan blade. Slight concern that it felt no different with decompression lever up or down. Maybe a stuck valve? I think I'll get the valve cover off tomorrow. Started getting loader off today.

[Billy26F5]

Great progress! Before you do remove the rocker cover just keep at it a bit, depending on the position the engine is in (near TDC or BDC) you won't get much resistance from compression, with the decompressor open you should only have mild increase in drag when the pistons are in the middle of their stroke, this is where compression should be very noticeable with the decompressor closed.
Sandy

[leeroy]

Great progress! Before you do remove the rocker cover just keep at it a bit, depending on the position the engine is in (near TDC or BDC) you won't get much resistance from compression, with the decompressor open you should only have mild increase in drag when the pistons are in the middle of their stroke, this is where compression should be very noticeable with the decompressor closed.
Sandy

So keep trying to turn engine in both directions? It seems like it was stick at the end of any travel in either direction. Did not feel like compression to me.
If you think Ican proceed cautiously and slowly without removing injectors to oil bores that would be great. However I will probably take starter out and use fly wheel. It's hard to get a good bite with a large screwdriver on that chain coupler, plus I have to switch sides everytime it gets to the end of it's travel.
I assume the counter and counter clockwise rocking back and forth is best?
@John b The injection pump moves freely during all this, I was careful to remember your input!

[Billy26F5]

Just very carefully. You're always in time to remove the injectors and it's probably worth doing so before attempting to start the engine but if you can get it to turn slowly by hand all the way that will be a great success (once it seems to do so the normal way, in other words clockwise from the front). Do remember to get it out of gear first, it sounds a bit like you might not be.
Sandy

[leeroy]

It did turn over more in each direction using that coupler. Only had a few minutes early this morning, back to it in a few minutes!

[Billy26F5]

Keep at it, this is one of these things that need perseverance. When you take the rocker cover off I would pour engine oil (with an oil can) over all the moving parts just to give them something to work on before starting up, I would do it just before you put the cover on.
Sandy