FPM - Overheating, coolant being pushed out of radiator...

[TroyTM]

A few weeks back my son and I are cleaning corrals. Manure wagon is being pulled by our 1960 FPM. Although neglected when we purchased it a few years back we have given it plenty of TLC. It has always started instantly and ran well. Maybe lose a little power when under load (wood chipper) but likely due to the pneumatic governor rubber being in poor shape...but that is another topic. Nor running it hard just pulling wagons of manure and spreading them at about 1400rpm. Suddenly the engine is overheating and "making funny noise". So my son stops the tractor. We have a look at it, there is no coolant in the radiator. Oil is a bit dark, was clean before we started the day (less than 50 hours since last changed). Coolant filled and tractor starts up immediately. As soon as it is running there is coolant coming out of the overflow. Try driving a bit and have no power to come up a very slight incline in 1st gear. Shut the tractor down. Coolant is pretty well all gone. Tow it back to the yard and push it into the garage.

Engine oil is now very black...and up from the full line. Coolant obviously mixed with it. So I am thinking head gasket. I am not a mechanic but can do a few basic things. Did a head gasket on a Toyota 22RE a few years back and that thing ran for 100,000km before my son sold it and it was still going... When I get the head off there is coolant in cylinders 2 and 3, a couple of centimeters worth. I dry it out and oil the sleeves to inspect. No cracks in the sleeves. So I order head gasket set, send the injectors to be cleaned and tunes at a local shop and set to cleaning things up. Replaced water pump and thermostat.

As I am inspecting the engine I notice that there is "Play" in the pistons. What I notice is there is a bit of "clunking" as I turn the engine over by hand. I can push the pistons down ever so slightly in the sleeves when they are just past top dead center. Same amount more or less in each cylinder.

So here is my question; Is that normal between the wrist pins and connecting rod bearings or is is signs that there is excessive wear and the connecting rod bearings should be replaced? This is something I never noticed when running the tractor but now that I have the head off I can hear and see things I would not have otherwise. I figure if I could just do the connecting rod bearings from the bottom without taking out pistons that would be ideal. However if there is some wear at the wrist pins I could go all the way and put in new pistons and rings as well as deglaze the cylinder sleeves. A bit more work than I was hoping for but I would hate to ignore it, put it back together and have a more serious failure in a couple hundred hours.

Thank you for your experienced advice!

[John b]

You shouldn't have any play in the pistons (other than maybe a tiny amount side to side) so it sounds like you have a problem there. The Major has wet liners so it is not always as simple as just replacing the head gasket as the liners have to protrude above the gasket face by 4 thou to enable the gasket to seal. If one or more liners has dropped in the block they will need shimming back up to the correct height. There are also seals on the liners (being a 1960 there are 2 on each liner, top and bottom) which can fail allowing coolant into the oil. It is also worth getting the head re-faced and pressure tested for cracks as it may well have overheated with the coolant issues. I would remove the engine and change the main (crank) bearings too and inspect, measure and polish the crank journals, it is more work but not as much as putting it back together with new rod bearings and having to strip it all down again because the problem is still there. If it was just oil in The water I would say take the chance with a new head gasket but given your description of what happened, lack of power, water in the oil and possible overheating I think you need to look at a complete engine rebuild. They are not a very complex engine to work on, lots of videos on youtube and always plenty of advice on here if you have any problems

[Billy26F5]

I'm with John, I think you need a full rebuild. I don't know your serial number but the maximum play between piston and crankshaft is 0.0064" including play between the crankshaft and block, so you'll definitely need to look in underneath. I think you'll want to remove the liners as I suspect a crack or something like that due to corrosion, and if the liners are in trouble the o-ring grooves in the block will be too, prior to 1591023 there is only a lower o-ring which is smaller than the later one. Later liners cannot be shimmed as Ford considered the upper o-ring would preclude the need so you might have to look around if your liners don't protrude correctly (0.002"-0.004") although that would only be if your block is not original. For a simple head gasket change you can leave the liners alone provided there's a genuine minimum of 0.001" protrusion. Make sure you check your injector nozzles as overheating can ruin them badly. I suspect your crankshaft will need a regrind at least and a full set of new main and conrod bearings, as it sounds like you have real trouble there. Piston pins normally are fairly ok, but if the liners need changing new pistons and rings are basically needed and piston pins are not really a good idea to mix anyway. If you need a new crankshaft there will be more complications as the final one (E1ADDN-6303F) needs a different size gear (E1ADDN-6306B) which will cause a lot more trouble as you'll need a different camshaft outer gear too (E1ADDN-6256B) which is probably no longer gettable as it was a service part only (camshafts also have these issues, but with added complications as there are different ones for lorries and only the lorry ones are currently available, often incorrectly quoted as the same as the tractor ones without going into the heavier valve springs, later mounting plate and so on needed), your crankshaft should be E1ADDN-6303E (if your engine is actually 1960) and the gear should be E1ADKN-6306B). Keep us updated, we'll help you with anything you need. Having given you all the stuff about camshafts I recommend you check the cam lift before taking it apart it should be 0.258". Lorry camshafts have 0.305" for your period, later ones are a bit less but will be fitted with heavier valve springs. Lots of pictures will help a lot as we'll see what you have and what condition it's in.
Sandy

[John b]

Not disagreeing with you Sandy but I do disagree with Ford on the later liners, I have shimmed several of the 2 seal liners back to 0.004" and never had a problem with them afterwards, also found RTV silicone will seal minor Imperfections in the seal groove in the block and also acts as a lubricant to seat the liner on the seal

[Billy26F5]

I was only saying that in case he wants to buy shims (not that I'm aware of anyone making them anymore), but making them yourself you can fix just about anything. We used something like that on Super Billy as two of the grooves were beginning to be a bit doubtful, so far it's holding. The importance of fitting the correct o-ring though is something that aftermarket companies leave a lot to be desired as they haven't yet understood the difference in size.
Sandy

[John b]

There are a couple of places here in the UK that do shims but as you say it's a lottery with aftermarket parts, last engine I did the first set of liner seals I ordered were nowhere near right

[TroyTM]

Thank you for the feedback and the voice of experience. I am going to work this weekend to drop the sump. It is sounding like a full rebuild would be worth my while. Not how I planned to spend my days off this winter but this little tractor is a big part of the work we do around our farm in the seasons apart from winter. A bit of harrowing pastures, running a wood chipper, a small cultivator for field edges, and running the manure wagon when cleaning corrals. I will keep you updated on what I find.

[Billy26F5]

We'll need to find some way of sorting this as it's ridiculous to have so many companies and none free of criticism.
Dropping the sump is a good start, you can pressure test the cooling system like that to see if you see where coolant is leaking out, liner o-ring failures will look quite different to other problems and it should enable you to see where you need to check things. Well worth doing if you work with your Major as you won't imagine how you'll miss it while it's in bits (and hopefully it won't take you the 16 years it took us with Super Billy!).
Sandy

[TroyTM]

Update... It is way more than the head gasket. Dropped the sump. Connecting rod bearing on #1 and # 4 both turned on the crankshaft, #4 is definitely not in good shape. I presume this means I will be looking for new connecting rods or can these be machined to a different size that bearings can sill be gotten for. Crank will need to be turned. How much wear can there be before a new crank would be needed?

I need to get on cylinder sleeve out to see if it the double or single o-rings. I do not have a sleeve puller so what is a way that it can be done without damaging the engine block? Would it be worthwhile to get the block pressure tested in it's current state before rebuilding as the block could have a leak? Coolant was in cylinders 2 and 3 when I took the head off so I think it got in through the head gasket. There was a copper head gasket. Should that be the kind to replace with or is the composite material better?

Turning out to be a WAY BIGGER project than I had planned for this winter.

[Billy26F5]

The serial number should tell you what you have, single o-ring before 1591023 (Super Major). If your engine is not original the serial number will still find what it should have but you can measure the OD of the lip, 4 5/8" for early liners, 4 23/32" for later ones. The spigot diameter will tell you what type of gasket you need (4.25" copper only, 4.22" copper - non original - or composition thick), but if you have an EnFo E1ADDN-6051C then I would go for the copper type. I would do a pressure test first, if the liners are ok and the bores in them are too then there's no need to disturb them, pistons and pins are a similar case if you have flat liners (which I doubt with the gasket you have). You'll need second hand con rods, no new ones made, you need to find them by serial number too. They changed at 1425097 and 1509598. As for the crank the maximum regrind is -0.040". Don't forget this:

If you need a new crankshaft there will be more complications as the final one (E1ADDN-6303F) needs a different size gear (E1ADDN-6306B) which will cause a lot more trouble as you'll need a different camshaft outer gear too (E1ADDN-6256B) which is probably no longer gettable as it was a service part only (camshafts also have these issues, but with added complications as there are different ones for lorries and only the lorry ones are currently available, often incorrectly quoted as the same as the tractor ones without going into the heavier valve springs, later mounting plate and so on needed), your crankshaft should be E1ADDN-6303E (if your engine is actually 1960) and the gear should be E1ADKN-6306B).

If this crank is in trouble you'll need to either find a suitable second hand one or get the grinder to modify a new one to accept the earlier gear (not ideal).
Sandy

[John b]

If you have spun 2 main bearings I would say you have had a serious oil pressure problem (maybe pump failure) and the camshaft journals could be in trouble too. As Sandy says, some parts are interchangeable and some are not available new, you could be looking at a big parts bill for a full rebuild and some of the pattern parts on sale can be of very dubious quality. I think if it were mine (and this is just my personal opinion having rebuilt a few of these) given that it is a working tractor not worked too hard I would look for a complete used engine and fit that. You can still rebuild the original engine but you won't be under pressure to get it done and take your time sourcing the correct parts, Sandy is a mine of info and will tell you exactly what parts will fit

[Billy26F5]

The temporary engine swap sounds like a good idea but you'll need to hunt around for a suitable one. Lorry and industrial engines often have different mounting plates making it more awkward but they will be able to fit easily apart from that. Your serial number will help, as then the lorry and industrial numbers can also be matched.
Sandy