Hi
I have the possibility to buy a raised PTO for my 64 model Super Major (New Performance).
The seller is not quite sure which model the PTO came from, but he says it is from a Super Major.
Can I use both types?
I understand that the teeths on the PTO shaft for the hydraulic pump is either 18 or 21, so I can just change the gear on the pump.
But what about the driven gear in the gear box?
Anything I should wory about?
Kjetil
Raised PTO
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Roadless63
- True Blue
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Not 100% sure but Brian should confirm, I think the PTO shaft got larger for the new performance super major, whether this means the pump gears are not interchangable I don't know.
What I do know is that the new performance raised PTO is a 1:1 ratio compared to earlier raised PTO which requires a higher engine speed to give 540rpm by gearing PTO down (hence only N/P does not have "raised PTO" as a separate engine speed marked on tacho)
I think the actual unit will fit either tractor just you may not have the most desirable gearing for the PTO. As for hydraulic pump that I cannot confirm.
Raised PTO's are pretty rare in the UK, especially N/P. Most seem to fetch upwards of £400 these days.
What I do know is that the new performance raised PTO is a 1:1 ratio compared to earlier raised PTO which requires a higher engine speed to give 540rpm by gearing PTO down (hence only N/P does not have "raised PTO" as a separate engine speed marked on tacho)
I think the actual unit will fit either tractor just you may not have the most desirable gearing for the PTO. As for hydraulic pump that I cannot confirm.
Raised PTO's are pretty rare in the UK, especially N/P. Most seem to fetch upwards of £400 these days.
According to the supplement for the repair manual:
With the introduction of the New Super Major the PTO shaft revolves slower for any given engine speed. Therfore to maintain the hydraulic pump output the number of teeth on the pump driving gear has been changed from 33 to 34 and on the driven gear from 21 to 18.
Pascal has also written in the wiki:
For the New Performance Super Major, there is a special version. The differences on the outside are minimal. The big difference is in the gear ratio. Since the gearbox within the New Performance SuperMajor is already adjusted for 540 rpmat the PTO, the gear ratio in the raised pto gearbox is 1:1. You can find out whether you have a normal or a New Performance raised pto by counting the teeth of the gears. When two of the three gears are the same, you have a New Performance raised pto.
I rarely use the PTO, but need the hydraulic pump. My concern is not to have the corect rpm on the output, but the availability to stop the outside rotation while the pump is running.
So if the driven gear on the PTO shaft is the same on all Super Majors, I would assume I could use the older version as well. I would need to change the gear on the pump.
With the introduction of the New Super Major the PTO shaft revolves slower for any given engine speed. Therfore to maintain the hydraulic pump output the number of teeth on the pump driving gear has been changed from 33 to 34 and on the driven gear from 21 to 18.
Pascal has also written in the wiki:
For the New Performance Super Major, there is a special version. The differences on the outside are minimal. The big difference is in the gear ratio. Since the gearbox within the New Performance SuperMajor is already adjusted for 540 rpmat the PTO, the gear ratio in the raised pto gearbox is 1:1. You can find out whether you have a normal or a New Performance raised pto by counting the teeth of the gears. When two of the three gears are the same, you have a New Performance raised pto.
I rarely use the PTO, but need the hydraulic pump. My concern is not to have the corect rpm on the output, but the availability to stop the outside rotation while the pump is running.
So if the driven gear on the PTO shaft is the same on all Super Majors, I would assume I could use the older version as well. I would need to change the gear on the pump.
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Roadless63
- True Blue
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- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 10:49 pm
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Just did a quick scan of the internet as I was sure the N/P shaft was different, according to this site:
http://www.feweatherill.com/engine/engine_date.htm#1964
It states that PTO extension tube increased to 2 1/8" diameter. Whether this generates compatability issues with earlier majors I don't know as I don't have a N/P raised PTO to compare with an earlier one.
Regards, Ed
http://www.feweatherill.com/engine/engine_date.htm#1964
It states that PTO extension tube increased to 2 1/8" diameter. Whether this generates compatability issues with earlier majors I don't know as I don't have a N/P raised PTO to compare with an earlier one.
Regards, Ed
The seller says the PTO shafts has the folowing numbers of teeths:
18 teeths inside the gear box
34 teeths for the hydraulic pump
24 teeths for the raised PTO
Whats puzzle me is the 34 teeths for the hydraulic pump, which is the same as the New Performance Super Major (NPSM) according to the supplement.
But according to Pascal the NPSM shall have 2 of the 3 with the same number of teeths.
Also Ed says the NPSM have a different PTO extension tube. I assume that the PTO extension tube is what I would call the PTO shaft.
Have the seller counted the number of teeths wrong for the 34 teeths. Not a big difference between 33 for the old shaft and 34 on the new.
Kjetil
18 teeths inside the gear box
34 teeths for the hydraulic pump
24 teeths for the raised PTO
Whats puzzle me is the 34 teeths for the hydraulic pump, which is the same as the New Performance Super Major (NPSM) according to the supplement.
But according to Pascal the NPSM shall have 2 of the 3 with the same number of teeths.
Also Ed says the NPSM have a different PTO extension tube. I assume that the PTO extension tube is what I would call the PTO shaft.
Have the seller counted the number of teeths wrong for the 34 teeths. Not a big difference between 33 for the old shaft and 34 on the new.
Kjetil
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Roadless63
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- Posts: 269
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 10:49 pm
- Location: Derby/Hants
Just to add to your worry list, make sure that the bottom bolt on rhs has not been removed as this is a special bolt with detent to keep lever engaged/disengaged. If it has been removed then there will be a spring and ball bearing floating about. If it has been lost then you will have some machining to do.
It is work checking out the condition of the gears too, I have heard horror stories of how people would ram them in and out of gear without using the clutch!!
It is work checking out the condition of the gears too, I have heard horror stories of how people would ram them in and out of gear without using the clutch!!
Re:
Roadless63 is showing a link to a site listing a lot of changes to the Major over the years.Roadless63 wrote:Just did a quick scan of the internet as I was sure the N/P shaft was different, according to this site:
http://www.feweatherill.com/engine/engine_date.htm#1964
It states that PTO extension tube increased to 2 1/8" diameter. Whether this generates compatability issues with earlier majors I don't know as I don't have a N/P raised PTO to compare with an earlier one.
Regards, Ed
Unfortunately this link isn't working anymore.
Does anyone happen to have a copy of this list, or a similar list showing changes done to the Major over the years?
I am mainly interested in changes for the Super Major, but any list is welcome