Major liner removal and re-fitting

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:08 pm

Hi guys im new here! I have a 1954 major diesel, which has a 500e engine fitted, it basicly needs a rebuild because it has a cracked liner, so im going to do the lot. I emailed brian and asked about how to get the liners out, so ive got a bloke coming round next week to do it with a puller.
Has anyone ever done this and had experiences they could share, just as info for me really.
Also whats the best way of putting the new ones in and sealing?
Many thanks nick

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:26 pm

Welcome Aboard Matey.

I have pulled the liners in a variety of engines using a home shop built puller. I have turned a plug for the bottom of the sleeve and drilled a hole in the center and used a piece of threaded rod up though the center to a cross piece on top that is blocked away from the top of the sleeve. All you need to do is just crank them out with wrenches and nuts. Most of the time these will pull out by hand after the have been moved about an inch or so. The hard part is getting them started. Dandy Dave!

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:19 pm

Welcome Nick,

Check the 590e-topic at the Ford conversions-forum.
It will give you some information/pictures.

nikk · Post by **nikk** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:55 pm

Hi i have just removed my liners i used a 7lb slide hammer this is not a great way to do the job but they would not move with the threaded rod and i do not have a hydro liner puller

a slide hammer could easily brake the casting arround the liner if it is dry and fast get some duck oil in there or diesel! i was luckyi will let you how they go back over the weekend fingers crossed

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:35 pm

Warm the block with a salamander heater. Take care not to set it too close. Chill the liners in a freezer. I've done this before with dry sleeve 8N,9N,2N, and other number series Ford tractor motors. works well and the liners almost slide in them selves. Dandy Dave!

Post by **Brian** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:57 pm

The liners push in with your fingers. You may need a little tap down with a hammer shaft.

Tyre fitting soap, Swafega or soft soap around the bottom.

They go in easy, if you have to use any force you have a rucked seal or dirt still in the ring groove.

You will need to fit them dry and check that they have a .002" to .004" protrusion above the surface of the block.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:42 pm

ideal thanks mate, ive got a depth mike for measuring so should be straight forward-ish. Do you know what the torque settings are for the conrod bolts?

Post by **Brian** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:40 pm

Head = 85-90 ft/lbs

Rods = 55-60 ft/lbs Advise new nuts.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:00 am

brilliant, does anyone know where i can get new nuts from? or do i just put the old ones back on?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:24 pm

ok, got my engine kit today in the post, the liners drop in until about 10mm from being in properly and then they sort of get stuck, it looks like its around where the seal goes in, so do i file or sand it out until it fits snug?

Post by **Brian** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:55 pm

Does it stop on the seal or the seal groove lip? Which block have you got, is it the one with two seals?

The liners with two seals are slightly larger diameter, it is possible these are the ones you have got. They may not fit.

super6954 · Post by **super6954** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:26 am

I Just put new liners in my major and have done them loads of times before and have never had any that pushed right in with my fingers.
compare the outside dimensions of your new and old sleeves to make sure they are the same for a start as Brian states there are 2 types of sleeve. then make sure that you have all the crap and rust out of the groves that the sealing ring goes in bottom (and top if you have the late type block). this takes a while to do it properly though.
put the rings in with luberication as stated in the other posts in this topic. Then insert the sleeve till it goes tight. it sounds to me like the 10mm you talk about is the depth of the taper that is at the bottom of the sleeve before it goes back parallel. If all the other measurements and things are correct do not be affraid to use 2 short bolts in the head stud holes that are close to opposite in the block with a large repair washer that fits on the edge of the sleeve to gently pull it in. (just make sure the bolt does not bottom in the hole before the sleeve is all the way in).
I have used the hammer handle method once but ended up with a splinter under the sleeve and it threw the liner protrusion that Brian talks of out. so that is why I pull them in with the bolts now.
sorry if this is long winded I am a do it rather than the try and explane it in 50 words or less type guy.
I hope this helps .
Regards Robert

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:59 pm

they are definetly the correct liners, single o-ring ones. i have cleaned all the seal seats etc out, the liner goes down further in cylinder 3 ive discovered today so they will go in. i will try the head bolt thing, but how do i get them back out again after dry fitting them? i suppose the puller.
just as a matter of interest, the seal seats themselves have two levels (at the bottom of the block), the bottom level is clean and tidy, i.e no rust or corrosion, but the top one is slightly corroded, not enough in my opinion to cause a problem, but you guys may know better than me?

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:18 pm

Be sure to use a good sealer like Hylomar in the block grooves when you install the sleeves. It seals and also acts like a lubricant as the o-rings go into place.

Post by **Brian** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:04 pm

They should be a loose fit dry with no seals in. The lip at the top holds them and the pressure of the head when pulled down, thats why your liner protrution is very important.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:59 pm

ok, bit of an update, got them in with a couple taps with my hand (was me being a bit nervous of putting them in).

got them measured properly, and now they are out on the bench again! so i hope to get the seals in next and then put them in properly. ive seen alot of posts about liner protution, just so im sure, what is the exact protrution? i measured 0.010 of an inch.

i apologise for my stupidness on this, but i just want to get it right, plus im only 23 and im not a mechanic!

super6954 · Post by **super6954** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:30 pm

Hi Nick
you dont need to feel stupid we all started somewhere. when I was small I started taking stuff apart and by 12 I was changeing a head gasket on a Renault 5 i trashed round the fields in.
I just got an early start. Im now 36 and one of the few english men in Canada that works repairing fordson majors as part of my daily business Ive even had Ford N/H dealers phone or pass work on as they had no clue.
An old guy told me once the stupid guy is the one that takes it apart has no clue doesn't ask questions and puts it together wrong and has to do it again or gives up.
good luck with the old girl you cant have better guys to answer questions than all of us fordson nuts on here. If Brian or somebody else doesnt no then its not worth fixing!.
Regards Robert

Post by **Brian** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:08 pm

That is too much, you need to check again with a straight edge across the edge of the liner and a feeler gauge.

It should be 0.002" to 0.004". Lots of cleaning is needed if it is 0.010".

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:00 am

oh bugger im glad i mentioned that now! ok i guess they will have to go back in again, wont take too long now though and i will have it back together. thank you brian for that info. may have saved alot of hassle

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:12 pm

One thing that I do when installing wet sleeves is to use a silicone gasket maker on the O rings. Over here in the states it is called "Permatex" It will lubricate them as you slide them in for the last time. And also, if a ring does get a nick. It will be sealed. Dandy Dave!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:16 pm

ive got them to fit to what brian said, 0.002 - 0.004, they all sit nice now so ive put the seals in the bottom and it seems quite hard to get them in now, ive tried silicone grease and its still the same, so one of my 'contacts', has got something called a strongback to put them in with, so we will see! will post some pictures when i have chance

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:06 pm

I hope these work, never posted photos here before, have got some more if these work![/img]

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:11 pm

ok, looks like that worked! heres some more i took earlier of my blue major and the red oxide one which is my next project! its seized solid. had diesel in it for months!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:16 pm

i bought the whole re-build kit for the blue one, looks fairly good. the picture of the seal looks worse than it actually is, but i am going to use some mylomar to seal it and make sure of it! the red oxide one has a super major engine in it, with a minimec pump, but she is so seized i reckon im going to have to re-build it!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:50 pm

ok. bit of an update, managed to find some time to spend on the old girl, the liners have been pressed in, and now ive got the pistons in, engine seemed a bit tight but is slowly loosening up the more i turn it over (by hand), so im happy, should be start up fairly soon!