The Honour of this Board is at Stake

Post by **Brian** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:23 pm

Right Chaps,

A bit of collective brain power is needed here! One of our board friends has a wife who races tractors in a big race in Austria. This year she wishes to use a Fordson Major and needs ideas on how to increase its forward speed.

Tyre changing from 12.4X36 is out as this is the required size.

The engine must be diesel.

Gear and Axle ratios may be adjusted.

All ideas welcome. This is serious. The honour of 2 ladies is at stake!

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:57 pm

Hm...the engine must be a Diesel, but is it possible to change it to a newer Pickup engine or car engine? My Nissan Pick-up has the red zone on tachometer begining at 5000rpm as an example.

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:39 pm

Brian
Heres your chance to put that Merlin airplane engine in, and leave the propeller on also

Kiwi Kev

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:09 pm

Hi,

Interesting idea.

Maybe this configuration may work OK

FMD MK1 engine, governer pipes disconnected the right way to improve engine speed. Otherwise a industrial engine will rev up higher also quite easily, isn't it?

E27N Rear axle and transmission with the Howard step up box

Super Major Disc brakes in new condition, to make sure the brakes are OK and can be controlled better than the standard drum brakes with the "all or nothing" system.

Ford 5000/5600 etc front axle with pressed steel wheel centres and hydraulic orbitrol steering.

I think this should do a little to improve top speed and handling. Before start thinking about 6 cilinders, turbo's etc invest in a good rops.

Mike Kuscher · Post by **Mike Kuscher** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:21 pm

Hold it, Don't forget!
You CAN successfully use Nitros Oxide injection on a diesel.

Post by **Brian** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:58 pm

Emiel,
Is the E27N a different ratio, crown wheel and pinion? That would work if it was. Don't like the idea of Super brakes though.

They were far more troublesome and less reliable than the old shoes. I have those disc brakes on Nuffy and its a constant problem to a0 get a brake and b) get it to release.

Mike, Problem with the fuel idea is the fuel is supplied and monitored by the race officials and must be diesel only.

The race is over 24 hours so there must be a reliability factor in the changes.

Kev, I like the idea of the Merlin. We had a fly past at Mike's show of the Spitfire and Hurricane and there is something about the sound of those engines that make me go weak at the knees and send cold shivers down my back. But sorry the power unit has to be diesel powered. Not sure whether the propeller suggestion would meet Health and Safety rules either.

essex pete · Post by **essex pete** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:03 am

Shame you can't swap around the reduction gear or put some wheels on the brake shafts

Aussie Frank · Post by **Aussie Frank** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:11 pm

Hi Brian,

How fast do these ladies want to go? 20 or 30% faster, put a high flow air filter on and let the engine rev if it is a vacuum govenor or put heaver springs into a mechanical one. Set the wheel base to maximum width and get rid of the hydraulics for a weight saving. Lightening the flywheel and balancing the engine mightn't be a bad idea either. 100% faster, try an engine swap for a Toyota or Nissan diesel out of a 4 wheel drive. Not cheap depending on what you can buy an engine for and a fair amount of work to fit the engine.

My favorite though would have to be final drive ratio change. You need a friend in an engineering workshop that has a gear cutter. What you do is cut a new set of bull gears one third the diameter of the originals, that's if you want to go 3 times as fast for example. You also need to cut a set of idler gears slightly larger than the distance between the pinion and bull gears. The trick to making all this work is that you have to flip the diff over. Fordsons are the only tractor that I know of that you can reverse the drive on that easily. The only real critical part is to slide the idler gears into place and work out the exact place to bore two holes in the rear axle so that you get the right backlash between the idler gears and the new bull gears. I would use a 1 1/2" shaft that goes right through from one side to the other. I would fit the idler gears with back to back tapered roller gears held into the idlers with a bolted flange to hold them in. A couple of spacer tubes to keep the idler gears in the right place on the shaft and two plates on the outside of the rear axle housing to keep the shaft in place and you are done. Keep the engine fairly standard and it will run flat out all day. 54 hp is plenty to go very fast with no load. The only thing I would say is that this will do nothing for braking and I would take some advice from someone about how to stop this thing, maybe industrial brakes may work, or realy big diameter disks on the rear wheels. The best part is nobody would know how darn fast this thing would be. The only sign that anything had changed would be a pair of plates bolted to sides of the rear end. I have a friend in Australia who has the gear cutting atachments for his lathe to do the job, but I am sure that there should be hundreds more people in England and Europe who could do the job.

Just my two cents worth and maybe way outside of what is wanted, but you did ask how to go fast.

Regards, Frank.

Post by **Brian** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:05 pm

This is becoming a really interesting project

I will pass on all this to Dietmar. He cannot gat on the net at the moment so I have to do it by e-mail.

Here is the address of the site http://www.traktorrennen.at If you go into the archive section for last year, the ladies that are on the podium are the ones we are helping.

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:07 pm

This has got nothing to do with going fast, but who is the member who's wife wants to go fast.
Kiwi Kev
PS only being nosey now

Sorry Brian. In between reading the last post, and posting this one, you posted and answered my question.

Dietmar · Post by **Dietmar** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:27 pm

thank you Brian and the community for the feedback. I managed to get the computer working again - it sounds the real speed improvement has to be done by modifying the rear end.
This would be challenging to get it working and tested for end of August. We have a Valmet 565 which makes 42 km/h and it did already 2 races with the boys team.
It has a crack in the engine block which has to be welded and a fuel system which has to be overhauled. I am overhauling the Simms Minimec right now.
This will do it for this year race. But I will make the Power Major ready for the 2009 event, because it is the better driving Machine "considering simplified technique for line maintenance and fuel capacity - every fuel stop does cost time". More inputs are welcome thank you very much. I will inform the forum how the girls drive.

http://www.traktorrennen.at/foto/foto.p ... maxpic=685

Post by **Brian** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:20 pm

Right Chaps we have another year to put this together then we shall have a board outing to Austria to see it race

Ann has already stated making arrangements for the drive down like I did in 1972. Aaah The coffee

The chocolate cake

The wine

I wouls suggest a project name of "Bluebird" and all ideas to increase the speed of a Power Major to Mach 2 will be gratefully accepted!

Link to Dietmars Club http://www.oldtimerclub-traiskirchen.at/

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:04 pm

Hello Brian,

For as far I have in mind, the E27N has a longer end reduction in the gearbox, which is obtained through a different gear and pinion assembly, but I'm not quite sure.

Maybe easier is make smaller half axle gears in the rear end, whith a chain sprocket drive, driven from the outer side of the differential cage. Then you have to turn the differential cage 180 degrees as Aussie frank decided.

Other idea: Take one big gear out of the rear axle and connect the rear axle shafts togeter. For example the right hand gear out. When you are in top gear then, you can adjust your speed with braking on the right hand side. The more you brake, the higher you speed up. But then you need serious engine power. This is then like a CVT transmission.

The later the night, the sillier the idea.

Tractorbob3 · Post by **Tractorbob3** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:18 pm

I am sure I read somewhere recently that it is possible to reverse the installation of a (Howard?) reduction gearbox and thereby gear everything up - I think it was done by someone doing a Lands End/John O'Groats or a Round Britain trek for charity. I'll trawl back through my magazine stock - but maybe someone else has heard of this and knows if it works?

super6 · Post by **super6** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:43 pm

a man local to me had his t20 in one of the classic tractor mags recently, he fitted it with a p6 and reversed a howard reduction box he was claiming a road speed of 30/40 mph.
that should win most races i would think.

essex pete · Post by **essex pete** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:28 pm

30-40mph would want some stopping

Post by **Brian** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:19 am

Belive it or not but I have the knowledge to make a basic M-F Datatronic range tractor go very fast. It was just a matter of splitting it and turning a gear round in the front of the gearbox.

Was part of the M-F mechanics course I attended soon after they were launched.

What have I admitted to!

Shock and horror reverberate round the Internet. Brian admits to being M-F trained!!

Oscar says "GET HIM OFF MY BOARD"

henk · Post by **henk** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:57 am

Brian,

That was a shock.

Is this the wolf with sheep clothes?

But as we are talking other brands now, the Allis Chalmers U was used for races. The record stands by Barney Oldfield at 102.85 Km/u. Don't know how they stopped that tractor.

Emiel, what’s that with your picture? Shouldn’t it be cabriole and bleu?

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:23 am

Henk,

That car used to be my car. I miss it.

Meanderer · Post by **Meanderer** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:01 am

Brian wrote:
What have I admitted to!

Shock and horror reverberate round the Internet. Brian admits to being M-F trained!!

Nahhh. I believe it adds to credibility. Shows others that you are qualified to CHOOSE Blue over Red ......

Rick

Dietmar · Post by **Dietmar** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:20 am

Thank you for the inputs so far
We have another option going from original into the open class.
Which allows altering the engine, with no turbo! with a speed up to 70km/h.
But as said stopping is the problem, therefore front brakes have to bee installed by rule.
The rear axle has to stay (no springs, no lorry tail) as well as the front.
best regards
Dietmar

Dietmar · Post by **Dietmar** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:48 am

Update

The girls have made it the 3rd time.
5. Oldtimer 24 Hours Tractor Race World Champ: Best Ladies Team 2008.
Problems just prior and during the race:

- Crack in the Engine Block: repaired with JB Weld and Windshield glue
- Loose Crankshaft Nut = big oil leak. Rad removed Nut torque
- Left front Tyre flat in the last 20 minutes of the race - finish line crossing with flat

Was a great event - section control with no limit caused many penalties which had created some negative feelings

(A 1960 Power Major with a modified IP setting, no other alterations, was making 40km/h and lasted!)

Best regards from Austria

Dietmar

Post by **Brian** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:18 pm

Pass on the boards congratulations to them please Dietmar