The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

I have now got my hands on a New Performance non live drive gearbox for the Roadless, however it has been relieved of its PTO unit. Now I know the NP PTO's are a different ratio, does anyone know how many teeth should be showing on a NP PTO unit. Are these gears transferrable into an earlier housing? I have plenty of standard PTO units but am having difficulty tracking down a NP one for sensible money. I have located one in the US but shipping is high. If I can get just the gears shipped over it might work out a lot better!
Any info greatly appreciated
Cheers
Ed

Do you mean a Raised PTO unit?

No, the actual main PTO drive which bolts under the transmission. I know the N P raised PTO has a 1:1 ratio, this is because the main PTO unit is geared differently

The New Holland web site shows housing E1ADDN7252C for years 01/01/52 to 08/31/58, and E1ADDN7252B for years 06/01/63 to 12/31/64 (I'm not sure what happened to the years in between), so I guess they are different. It also shows a different gear on the PTO shaft from 06/01/63 on, but it doesn't say how many teeth it has. It shows the same idler gear from '52 through '64, so the housing must have been changed, to mount it in a different place to compensate for the new PTO gear size.

the housing is bigger on a new performance to allow for a larger gear.

JC wrote:The New Holland web site shows housing E1ADDN7252C for years 01/01/52 to 08/31/58, and E1ADDN7252B for years 06/01/63 to 12/31/64 (I'm not sure what happened to the years in between), so I guess they are different. It also shows a different gear on the PTO shaft from 06/01/63 on, but it doesn't say how many teeth it has. It shows the same idler gear from '52 through '64, so the housing must have been changed, to mount it in a different place to compensate for the new PTO gear size.

They use the old seal with the bigger hole, sofar I know.

If I remember corectly The Super Majors have one more tooth on the drive gear and the OD is slightly larger. I dont remember if the pump gear is smaller or if the pump got moved up a little higher in the housing, my guess is diferent gears to turn the pump faster with the lighter hydrolic oil used in the Supers. I just stuck the shaft back in my County and filled her up with oil two nights ago.....Sorry!

Pat

The distance between PTO shafts has been altered, so there must be np PTO drive.

As the older version delivered 540 RPM from PTO at 1200 engine RPM, the np needs for same pto speed 1543 RPM.

ist actualy 542 rpm at 1473 engine rpm

i have changed a diesel major pto shaft with a np one and they are the same,
the different gearing of pto is achieved by the ratio of the crown wheel on the diff, so eveything else is the same as far as i am aware.

Ok I hope this helps you out .
The diff ratio is not conected to pto speed there is no gear connection between the two units only through the drive on the gearbox.
The pto speed is altered by the gears in the drive unit under the main box.
I have a book here that states this. new super major has 32 teeth and old major has 26 teeth on the drive gear (not the idler in the pto unit drive top the one underneath that carrys the short drive shaft). the hyd pump drive gear for new super has 34 teeth and the early model has 33.
The pto shafts on the new super are an 1/8'' bigger diameter on the drive tube to take the extra power and are not a different length and can change over .
my book then goes on to say about what will interchange and what wont with parts used. There are pages of that c@#p and Im not going to waste time typing that lot out .

Not wanting to be rude maybe if you guys got hold of the old I&T shop service manual for fordson from Ebay (number FO-21) it covers all the fordson new type majors (Not the E27N though) from start to finish with upgrade info over different models .
The new print version covers so many diferent fords from major to the tw20 it is not as good and half the info wont be used but may be available from the U.K easyer than north America .
Good luck Regards Robert

Ok I have just had a thought that I have got a NP super major here and ordinary majors as well. I have just looked and compared external measurements and the new style is bigger where the drive gear fits in the bottom by over an inch .
So unfortunately it looks like you need the housing to match as well.
I did also notice that the old and new castings are marked different the early is marked Enfo and the later one is marked fomoco that is cast in a ford oval. these are cast on the tube part that runs towards the back axel so if you find one you could maybe use that as an identification over the phone if needed.
Im sorry i guess this is bad news but helps you in a way as atleast you now know . Regards Robert

Thanks for the input, the different castings gives a good indication as to whether the correct unit is fitted, especially helpful as many tractors (such as mine) will have been chenged about over the years, and originality was probably not the primary concern!

Ok Thanks Not a problem glad I could help . i just looked in the book again in a different section and there are more gears that are different in there too. it apears they modified that NPSM gearbox box a lot .
I have been watching this for a while and thought Brian would step in and solve this as you seemed to be going no where fast with this topic and definate answers .
i dont want to put Brian out of a job as hes the true god on the forum with his experience. Maybe just as im a small peasant on here i should keep quiet for a while now and just watch from the side and let the other guys do there team work
Regards Robert

You are not treading on my toes at all! Time is becoming a factor with me and I cannot answer all the threads especialy when you are working it out and others have good inputs.

The NP gear box was changed and certain gears were cut with a different profile, curved rather than flat. From new they always whined rather than clattered.

No changes were made to the standard PTO shaft but the housing, gears and idler shaft in the drop box down from the gearbox was changed also the pump drive gear and driven gear.

Ok thanks Brian I was just a little concerned about that. I know all about time to come on here. i come on at coffee or lunch time and after supper to look around most days.
The hardest part for me is some of my customers know i do this and they say if they joined forums I would answer there posts for help. i would tell them how to fix for free and do it there selfs. they dont like it because they get charged $35 an hour on the yard or in the workshop. There biggest thing is though it is not as easy to do this as they think. and a few guys on here seem to be finding this out the hard way.
Between me and my dad we have over 70 years combined dealing with majors and other things so we have experienced a lot like you.The knowlege on her runs to a few thousand years combined I guess. If we can all share knowlege and try and keep everybody happy thats great.
I think Ive hyjacked this topic enough now .
Thanks again Brian
Regards Robert

super6954 wrote: Maybe just as im a small peasant on here i should keep quiet for a while now and just watch from the side and let the other guys do there team work
Regards Robert

There are no small peasants here, Robert. Everyone has learned something that they can teach someone else. Its pretty obvious that you know a lot about Majors. We appreciate you passing that on to us.

they get charged $35 an hour on the yard or in the workshop

35 bucks an hour? For that kind of money I'll have you work on my tractors and I'll just drive them. Just kidding! Fixing them is half the fun, but I think you're working too cheap.

There are no small peasants here, Robert. Everyone has learned something that they can teach someone else. Its pretty obvious that you know a lot about Majors. We appreciate you passing that on to us.


35 bucks an hour? For that kind of money I'll have you work on my tractors and I'll just drive them. Just kidding! Fixing them is half the fun, but I think you're working too cheap.[/quote]

Thanks JC
yeah I know we have a lot of experience with this stuff but sometimes knowing to much can cause problems to. I just didn't want guys to think who's this nobody coming on here and taking over the show .

The $35 thing is just until i can get my shop up and running a bit better with just starting out . I want to get going with a good customer base and reputation for good work . I would then gradually rase the price after that to over $50 .
Regards Robert