The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

I think this could be the beginning of the end for 1218886 or 'Katy' as she is known. On our way to a local meet when there was a 'ping' from somewhere inside and soon afterwards she began to make the kind of noises that tell you all is not well. No sign of trouble inside the rocker cover, so the next task will be to drain the sump through a sieve, then have a look/feel around inside, just in case there's a lump of something obvious to point towards what is wrong.

The thing is, if the engine needs Major surgery (did you see what I did there!?) and the tractor has to be split, then would be the time to sort out the gearbox/back axle seals and the steering box that means you tend to go where Katy wants to go, and the distributor that's jammed on the end of the oil pump somehow, so I can't get it off to sort out the wear in that, and the brakes that don't .... oh the list will go on and on! Seriously thinking she needs to become someone else's problem.

But just in case I do lose my mind completely - does anyone know where I can source an engine rebuild kit? - or better still, given my skills with spanners, someone who can rebuild the engine for me? I've tried all the usual UK suppliers and they only do stuff for diesels and petrol/TVO pistons are flat-topped.

Any advice much appreciated ......

Hi I dont now if parts are over here in Canada or the states on the shelf. If the liners are the same diameter as early diesel with no flame ring on the top I have a set of 4 new ones on the shelf in my workshop . dont know about the shipping cost though. If I get chance i will ask around parts stores as theres loads of petrols
( gas) majors this side .
Regards Robert

Gaskets, bearings, sleeves, and all the other bits are the same as the diesel so no problems.

The pistons and manifilod gaskets are different and could be a problem but not a total impossibility.

It really comes down to how far you want to go.

Thanks, both. I think from what you have said and what I have been able to find out from other helpful folks, the pistons are the only things that could present a challenge from a sourcing point of view - and the good news is that I understand also they are the least likely to need replacing - the rings, yes, but probably not the pistons.

Brian - just to add to your already encyclopaedic knowledge - Cox & Turner in the UK can supply new manifold gaskets for DKNs - got some last year after I had the cracked manifold repaired and they are good quality.

So, when I can find some time over a weekend not too far away (I hope), I'll take a look underneath and see if there's anything obvious. Either way, looks like there's some tough decisions ahead! If I find anything spectacular, I'll try to upload some pics.

Thanks again for the help - best helpdesk in the world!

Which gaskets did you get?

There is a metal faced one which was original spec or there is the later one which was made out of copper sheet, which allows better transfer of heat to the vaporiser.

I had the copper ones on Henrietta until, one day, when they were leaking a bit, I threw them away.

W-e-l-l ..... I expected them to be metal faced, but they were just made out of what I would call 'ordinary' exhaust gasket material - like a sandwich of quite substantial silvery foil with a black composite in the middle. Definitely not copper.

I did query it at the time - see my post on this board - but came to the conclusion they were what they were ... fitted them and (so far) they seem to be OK - didn't get into thinking about stuff like heat transfer, more concerned with air leakage into the inlet side. I've still got the metal plates that I found when I took the manifold off to get it repaired - they had some traces of gasket material on them, but most of it was long gone.

I did think about putting the metal bits back as an addition to the Cox & Turner gaskets, but, as I say, my concern was leakage and I couldn't see how the metal plates would be anything but a drawback.

Going to try to post a photo ....

<a href="http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k63 ... KTM376.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k63 ... KTM376.jpg" border="0" alt="1952 E1ADKN"></a>



Doh! back to the manual .....

Looks a beaut. You can't stop now!!

Thanks, Ben (and for fixing the photo for me) - the photo was taken post-restoration 10 years ago and she still looks pretty damn good .... but but beneath that shiny shell lurks a whole loada trouble, I suspect. We'll see .....

found some petrol/ TVO pistons on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORDSON-E1A-MAJOR ... 3cb215ca44

Thanks, John - I'm watching them and there's a few days to go, so I'm hoping to have time to at least see if there's anything obvious down the bottom end - can't see any problems with the valve gear.

If there's no bits lying around in the sump, that's when I'll have to consider my options and if I decide to go for an engine out proper rebuild (which also means taking on all the other things that need improving - I can't do half a job!) that's when I might put in a bid.

Wish there was an emoticon that showed a body hopping from one foot to the other I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure ....

Tractorbob3 wrote:Thanks, John - I'm watching them and there's a few days to go, so I'm hoping to have time to at least see if there's anything obvious down the bottom end - can't see any problems with the valve gear.

If there's no bits lying around in the sump, that's when I'll have to consider my options and if I decide to go for an engine out proper rebuild (which also means taking on all the other things that need improving - I can't do half a job!) that's when I might put in a bid.

Wish there was an emoticon that showed a body hopping from one foot to the other I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure ....

If your bidding on ebay. Hamersnipe is your friend.

Bob,
You have not told us what sort of noise or why you think it is a major problem. It may sound bad but could be minor. Have you still got oil pressure?

On the black side, it could be a broken crank but even this is not a bad problem as there are plenty around both new and secondhand.

Brian - you're right - I've been a bit vague on the noise - mainly because it's difficult to describe. Need you and Oscar to work out how to add a soundtrack to this board!!

OK - let's do the oil pressure thing first, which I've covered on this board before, but never really bottomed out. I just use Katy now for about half a dozen or so rallies a year with a bit of fun stuff in between and always drive to and from - maybe up to 2 hours each way at pretty much full speed. I change the oil and filter every year and for the last couple of changes have used the Halfords multigrade vintage oil that I think you said you use in Henrietta. Before that I used good quality oil - usually Castrol SAE40. Ever since I've had her (over 10 years now), I get about 40 psi on cold startup, but after 10/15 minutes running, the guage drops back to zero, with no noticeable change in engine noise. I'm no skilled mechanic (as you'll have gathered), but I've been told this probably means the engine is well worn but the pump is giving out lots of flow and that is protecting the bearings. So to answer your question, I've NEVER had oil pressure!

So I'm hurtling along a back road - been running for probably 10/15 minutes, everything nice and warm, when there's a 'ping'. The best way I can describe it is, it was like a heavy washer hitting the inside of the rocker cover at speed. It was not like a stone hitting a fan blade - not like a noise made by something in free air (heavens this is hard!!).

The engine continued to run and there was no misfiring or smoke from the exhaust, but it started to labour a little and .... sorry .... just got noisier in a way that someone who has listened to it for many happy hours would know it was noisier. Definitely not a heavy knock or even a light one - more a rattle, but not of something light and loose, something with a bit of weight in it being shaken about. I did a smart about turn and drove gently home at half throttle and the noise seemed louder towards the end, but that could have been my imagination. It wasn't so bad that I thought I should stop before a conrod joined me in the driving seat.

I've had the rocker cover off and there's no sign of anything adrift. I have not taken the plugs out and wound the engine over by hand yet to see what's happening with the valves etc, but maybe this weekend, if I can make the time. I also want to drop the plate off the sump and check for debris - anything to give me a clue as to what went 'ping'!

If I can't find anything obvious, I'll need to dig deeper to find the cause and that's when I'll need to weigh up whether I want to go down that road or not. As I said in an earlier post, I can't see me taking the guts of the engine out without, at the same time, separating the distributor from the oil pump drive (it's jammed in and the distributor needs an overhaul) and fixing the gearbox to back axle seals, and reconditioning the steeringbox. Oh and while she's off the road, I'll probably think about sorting the brakes and cables - so the list goes on and on.

I love the old girl, but having already spent a bomb on getting it back together from a heap of bits 10 years ago, I'm not sure I'm able to do the same again. I'm going to see if I can overcome the Photobucket thing and get a 'before' photo on here, so you'll see what I mean.

There you go - bet you're sorry you asked!!

I must have been mad ......

All of it was there, pretty well, but most of it was broken!!

Bob,

You have come a long way and have done a wonderful job. I can understand that you are not keen on getting the tractor in parts.
But looking at her it would be a great lost. I’m sure you will regret a sale in a few years.
Rome was not build in one day, so take your time and cure the poor lady, even if it takes a very long time. At the end you can and will be proud you have fix her.

I seem to remember her from all those years ago!

If you had a "ping" in the valve cover it could be a broken valve spring and the noise you now here could be a valve striking the piston. That should be do-able. I think I have a new exhaust valve somewhere if needed.

Thanks Henk - I'm sure like most things, it just needs time and money and I don't have a lot of either to spare at the moment.

Brian - I'm not going to give up straight away because, as you say, it may be something relatively minor. I think if it was a valve spring there wuld have been some debris inside the rocker cover (unless the bits have fallen down the pushrod tube) and there would have been a misfire? Anyway, if time permits, I'll get inside her. She's not going anywhere and doesn't cost anything to keep where she's parked. I'll keep you posted!

Normally ther are no bits as the spring just drops down and remains around the valve. You only really notice it when you take the spring off.

Hi Bob,

Just my thoughts on the description you gave of the noise. To me it sounds like a timing gear may have jumped a tooth. It would certainly explain why the engine is not miss firing and just sounding a bit laboured now.

I would pull the front cover off, you will probably find your problem there. It could be somthing as silly as loose bolts on the cam gear. All the other problems would cause a miss or knock so I don't think pulling the head or sump off will show anything.

Just my two cents worth. I hope you find the problem soon.

Regards, Frank.

Frank - you may well be right and in another thread, I see that the low oil pressure reading could be caused by a blocked relief valve that sits under the front cover, I believe, so that's food for thought.

I think I will still check top and bottom first (not aiming to lift the head, just check what happens when I turn the engine over by hand and I'll check the springs as Brian suggests), as that may yield something. Then, then as I wrote earlier, I'll have to take a step back and think about what happens next.

Guys, thanks for all your help and advice - not just on this thread, but on the others that I have looked at in the course of trying to work out what may have happened inside Katy. I am not sure how soon I can look at her again, but when time permits I'll close the loop (or maybe open a whole new one!) by reporting what I find.