Siezed engine on a Fordson Major

[Lesterz]

Hi, This is my first post here so any help would be appreciated. I appear to have water in the sump of my Major & last time I used it it was spewing steam from an engine vent. I stopped it as the engine was getting progresively slower, but now it does not turnover at all with the battery.
I have been quoted approx 50 hours labour plus parts to rebuild the engine (at $70/hr). Ouch.
My question is this. How much mechanical expertise do I need to remove pistons & liners & replace required parts. I have modest mechanical skills but I have never before rebuilt an engine. I have a Repair Manual for Fordson Major 1952-58 & I have time to spend on the job as I am retired.

Any comments would be appreciated

[henk]

Letterz,

Let's go.
It's not the knowledge you have, but to know the one with the knowledge.
And you’re on the right address over here.

Welcome and give it a try.

[Brian]

Welcome to the board.

The Major engine is one of the simplest ones to work on and It is possible that you could carry out your repair with the engine in situe.

The manual takes you step by step through the work required and board members here are very experienced and helpfull if you need help.

The Fordson Tractor Club of Australia may also have a member in your area who could offer assistance/advice too. I am sure Barry M will chime in if they can help.

I could also bring my toolkit when I come over next April. May also be usful if I had it with me on the A380 Airbus.

[Dandy Dave]

Henry Ford, being an old farm boy himself, developed cars and tractors that the common man could work on himself if he had any mechanical sense at all. And he provided well written manuals to assist the owners, as often, a mechanic, or dealer, was miles away. The Fordson Major is no exception. Jump in and go for it. Dandy Dave!

[Ian]

I have a sneaking feeling on our fordson major water from the radiator is leaking into the sump. As the level of water in the radiator seems to be mysteriously decreasing, and the level of oil? in the sump seems far far too high.

I rebuilt the back end last year, breaks, new bearings in back axle, pto seal, hydraulics etc, but never done an engine either. Is it possible to do it without removing the actual engine block from the tractor ? Idealy would want to part it in the barn somewhere and give it some new pistons and liners, and whatever else it needs.

[super6954]

Hi Ian
yes it is possible to re build the motor and do what we call an "In frame" in Canada . It is alright to do it like this if the crank is good for new bearings straight on with no re grind and the rear oil seal is 100% and not leaking atall. It would also help if the clutch is good.
The parts mensioned need the motor removed if there are any problems with them. My advise would be go with the inframe but be prepared that the motor may have to come out depending on what you find or already know about other motor/ clutch problems.
dont buy parts until you know what you have got to deal with also. I am working on a tractor now that came supplied with parts and half is wrong with no return for credit. its $600 of ouch for the guy
Regards Robert

[Ian]

Well, my thought was to do the clutch at some later date, or get our tractor repair guy to do that as he has one of those train tracks things, that you can use the slide the front half of the tractor away from the back without a cataclysm.

The rear oil seal, is that something that can be replaced at the same time as the clutch ? Or does the whole engine need to be apart for that. I think it leaks a little bit, as the wiggle pin ? always looks like it has a tiny bit of oil on it.

[Brian]

You have to drop the sump to fit the bottom seal and then split the tractor to do the top one.

Why not do what I did to Henrietta? At that time I only had Fergy to lift with so I took off all the heavy bits first, then lifted the block/flywheel out . Repeated the operation when I put it back. All on my own! (See "Henrietta Overhaul" on the Wiki. Codes, fordsontractorpages and dotty).

As long as you have some good blocks to go under the clutch housing there are no safety issues doing it that way.

I am not sure when people say the crank is OK and just fit new bearings.

I have overhauled and seen overhauled hundreds of Major engines and can possibly count on one hand, the number that did not require even just a minimum regrind due to either grooving or being out of round.

I would always "do" the crank and fit new bearings, so for me, the engine should come right out, if you are looking at doing a proper job that will last and give you no trouble.

[JohnnyBoy]

I have a sneaking feeling on our fordson major water from the radiator is leaking into the sump. As the level of water in the radiator seems to be mysteriously decreasing, and the level of oil? in the sump seems far far too high.

If you slacken the sump plug off carefully but don’t remove it, normally you’ll see oil weeping from the threads but if you’ve got water in the sump then you’ll see water drip from the threads.

[JohnnyBoy]

I am not sure when people say the crank is OK and just fit new bearings.

I would always "do" the crank and fit new bearings, so for me, the engine should come right out, if you are looking at doing a proper job that will last and give you no trouble.

I’m with Brian here, the crankshaft is a vital component that converts the reciprocal motion of the pistons to a rotary motion to drive the tractor, and it has to be right. When I rebuilt Susie May’s (my Fergie) the crankshaft looked like the rear main journal only wanted a rub up with fine emery tape, but when I took it for a re-grind it turned out that all the journals were 0.013” undersize rather than 0.010”. Maybe the guy who did the first regrind should have calibrated his micrometer.

[JohnnyBoy]

My question is this. How much mechanical expertise do I need to remove pistons & liners & replace required parts. I have modest mechanical skills but I have never before rebuilt an engine. I have a Repair Manual for Fordson Major 1952-58 & I have time to spend on the job as I am retired.

Any comments would be appreciated

Lesterz… Get stuck in to your engine rebuild, if it’s the first engine rebuild you’ve done then I can’t begin to tell you how much pleasure you’ll get when it fires up and runs. Take your time and if you’re not sure come back to the forum and ask.

I think the main thing is to clean parts well, you might get a crankshaft back from the machine shop all nice and shiny but the first thing I would do is clean out the oil galleries to make sure there were no grinding debris that could be pushed out by the oil and damage the bearings.

Specialist tools like torque wrenches can be hired for a small cost.

Remember help is not far away with the forum

[Supermanuel]

My question is this. How much mechanical expertise do I need to remove pistons & liners & replace required parts. I have modest mechanical skills but I have never before rebuilt an engine. I have a Repair Manual for Fordson Major 1952-58 & I have time to spend on the job as I am retired.

Any comments would be appreciated

Lesterz… Get stuck in to your engine rebuild, if it’s the first engine rebuild you’ve done then I can’t begin to tell you how much pleasure you’ll get when it fires up and runs. Take your time and if you’re not sure come back to the forum and ask.

I think the main thing is to clean parts well, you might get a crankshaft back from the machine shop all nice and shiny but the first thing I would do is clean out the oil galleries to make sure there were no grinding debris that could be pushed out by the oil and damage the bearings.

Specialist tools like torque wrenches can be hired for a small cost.

Remember help is not far away with the forum

I fully agree to JohnyBoy. Every engine I have opened has had even other problems. Only complete dismantling and cleaning will give good result.

[Lesterz]

I have removed sump, radiator & cylinder head so far. Pistons still look like bad news. A couple of questions.
Is there any way I can remove the piston rods without removing the crankshaft?
Can I remove the crankshaft at this stage or do I need to split the tractor to achieve this?
Should I pour some diesel or degreaser or someother fluid into the pistons to hopefully ease their final removal? What do you suggest?
Is it worth trying to make up a crank handle & trying to turn over the engine by hand?
Any other words of wisdom are appreciated.

[Brian]

1 .. Pistons and rods come out of the top.
2 .. Engine will have to come right out to get the crank out.
3 .. Make sure the top of the liner is cleared of carbon before you try pushing the pistons up the bores.
4 .. Diesel, easing fluid, ATF anything that may help to free her off. You may find it is only one piston holding her. Try rocking her on the crank and see if there is any movement. A nice big hammer and a block of wood, thump each piston, this may help too.

[Aussie Frank]

Hi,

You will get far better results trying to turn over the engine by pulling the starter off and using a crow bar to lever the ring gear around. If you get it to move you will be able to pull the pistons and rods out of the top of the engine by removing the big end caps. Make sure you clean and lubricate the top of the bore to make things easier and find some means of removing the lip that will be worn in at the top of the bore. A ridge reamer or hone would be ideal, but plain old emery paper and lots of elbow grease will work too if you are going to replace the liners.

The con rods and big end caps are matched sets and the caps only go on one way so make sure you number them and mark them so that you get them back together the way they came out.

You can pull the pistons out two at a time. I find it easiest to rotate the engine until two big ends are right at the bottom, remove the big end caps making sure they are marked and then turn the engine over one full rotation. The pistons will stay at the top and the bare crank journals will be back at the bottom. The first thing I do then is to tape up the crank journals with plenty of electrical tape to protect them from knocks and dirt. The next step is a wooden stick right up to the top of the piston and a quick belt with a hammer and they should pop out. That is assuming you can get the engine to turn over. Lots of diesel and time will help.

If you can't turn the engine over with the crow bar don't even try to remove the pistons without removing the engine and the crank first. There is way too much risk of damaging one of the bearing surfaces on the crank shaft and you will have to pull the engine out to fix that anyway. In extreme cases the pistons will weld themselves to the liners and they will come out as one piece, but given your description of how things went wrong I don't think that would be the case for you. Never ever hit a con rod to try to get a piston out, you will destroy it.

Just my couple of pointers, I am sure others will add their's as well. Just keep us posted as to where you are at and I am sure we will keep you on the right track. Good luck.

Regards, Frank.

[Lesterz]

I have finally managed to remove the pistons which were not seized quite as tight as I thought they might be. A few taps with a shaft of wood from under the piston & out they popped. A home made liner puller remover the liners quite easily as well. They are quite corroded where the sealing ring goes so no wonder the oil & water mixed a bit. I hope these photos appear when this is submitted!!!

I now need to remove the engine block but I do not have a set of those tram track thingys to use. I was wondering if I could lift out the block with a front end loader I have on a small Yanmar tractor. Can anyone tell me how much the block, crankshaft & camshaft would weigh (approx).
I was hoping to block up the gearbox housing & chock the rear wheels, undo the remaining bolts between engine block & gearbox & slide engine block forwards. Is that possible? How is the crankshaft attached to clutch?

I still need to remove the front mounting plate for the timing gears & the auxiliary shaft gear. Does anyone know what size socket is required to remove the nut from the aux shaft gear? As you can see in the photo the nut has a cup around it so I cannot use a ring or open end spanner. Also any ideas on how to hold the gear whilst undoing the nut would be appreciated.
That is about all for the moment but I really do appreciate the comments from this site. Hope all the above makes some sort of sense. Thank you.

[The Swanndri Guy]

Slightly "off topic", but is it possible to get images onto the forum from Facebook? Or could it be possible in the future?TSG.

[Brian]

You need a socket spanner. You will need a set of different sized socket spanners really because, when you start putting her back together, you need to use a torque wrench on certain bolts. You may be able to borrow/hire both these items.

If you check the Wiki, "Henrietta Overhaul" you will see how I lifted the block with a Fergy TE20. Your tractor/loader should be capable.

Watch how you rig the lifting chain, the back of the engine will be heavier than the front due to the flywheel nd clutch.

Did you note which way round the pistons/rods came out? They only fit one way round. It is very important to get it right. Numbers stamped on the rods and caps go together. Notches or arrows on the top of the piston tell you which way is front.

[Bensdexta]

I hope these photos appear when this is submitted!!!

Lester, Unfortunately not as facebook is password protected. Can you put them on photobucket?

[Ian]

just click on the link
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1 ... 1293296033

[Bensdexta]

just click on the link
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1 ... 1293296033

Doesn't seem to work if you're not on facebook - no password

[Kav]

Hi Lester, I have found that Ron Clancey at Clanceys in Toowoomba is very helpful when restoring older tractors. He has new as well as second hand and keeps a lot of Fordson parts in stock, both mechanical and tinware. Good luck - best regards - Michael.