Pascals gearbox rebuild

frode · Post by **frode** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:39 pm

How is the double clutch holding up with the 6-cylinder?

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:11 pm

Thank you, Henk! I am very happy with the result so far too.

Frode, I haven't checked the clutch yet, but I don't expect problems because of the little hours the
engine has run so far and the light work it has done.

frode · Post by **frode** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:38 pm

Pascal wrote: Frode, I haven't checked the clutch yet, but I don't expect problems because of the little hours the
engine has run so far and the light work it has done.

OK. Thats a good thing. I have heard that the double-clutch may be a little weak for the 6-cylinder. I am putting a cargo engine in mine, and since I dont have live-drive I managed to fit the clutch setup from the truck. Should hold up well

I am stealing some ideas from your beautiful conversion. Hope you dont mind.

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:30 pm

Hi Frode,

Indeed, a double clutch is not the best pair with a 6 cylinder, but it's all I have.

Off course I don't mind. I "stole" some idea's of other too.

If you need pictures of any details, just met me know.

Good luck with your project!

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:07 am

Hi guys,

Last night I removed the steering house, the battery box and the High/Low-lever. After that I could remove the gearbox pretty easily.
At first sight I couldn't see any damage. The gearbox is at the workbench in my shed right now.
I guess I'll remove the axles of the gearbox during this week to investigate.

I'll keep you updated.

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:21 pm

Hi guys,

I checked the gearbox tonight and partially stripped the primary gearbox.

These things attracted my attention:

Do I miss some rolls in this bearing? Or is this normal? I didn't see any damage at the bearing. This bearing is located below the high/low gear lever.

I noticed quite some metalised dust at the bottom of both the primary and secondary gearbox:

This gear in the primary gearbox looks a bit damaged...it's mainly visible because I pulled back the bearing behind this gear a little:

To be honest I hoped to find the damage quite easily, but I all seems allright to me except for the above mentioned things?
Do you have any advices?

Aussie Frank · Post by **Aussie Frank** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:56 am

Hi Pascal,

The bearing that shows the gap in the rolers is the one that has failed. The cage that you found the parts of normally would hold the rolers apart and space them evenly around the bearing and stop them from falling out. You are so very lucky that none of the rolers came out and fell into the gears. Looks like you pulled the gearbox out at just the right time. You should buy a lotto ticket, you are obviously a very lucky man

Regards, Frank.

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:14 pm

Pascal
I've been reading this topic lately, and following your progress.
Glad that you found something. You will probably find more once you totally strip the gearbox.
As you strip the gearbox, it is very important to lay the parts out on the bench in order that you remove them. This will make it easier to reassemble later.
Keep us posted
Kiwi Kev

The Swanndri Guy · Post by **The Swanndri Guy** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:30 pm

For the bearing cage to collapse like that, is that a random event or has something else happened to cause the cage to collapse?

TSG.

henk · Post by **henk** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:31 pm

Glad you have found it Pacal.

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:12 pm

that rolled bearing has definitely failed. It's a good thing all the bearings didn't fall out !

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:37 am

Hi guys,

Thank you for your posts! I am glad to have found the problem.
Dos anybody knows what the cause to this problem might be? Too little oil in the gearbox in the past?
Or may be because since the conversion to the 6 cylinder, I have 2 steel rods on the side of my tractor (see 590-topic).
Perhaps they would in any way be too tight so that the gearbox goes a very little bit sloping?

Kev,
Would you strip the primary gearbox (high/low) too? Or just the secondary gearbox?
I plan to remove the gearbox housing in the near future.

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:17 pm

Pascal wrote: Dos anybody knows what the cause to this problem might be? Too little oil in the gearbox in the past?

or maybe just 50 plus years old

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:56 am

The bearing cages will wear and give up after many thousands of hours. Also, something may have gotten stuck in it and started the failure. The cages will fall apart rather quickly once any part of it gives up. Looks like someone has shifted that worn gear on the go often. Dandy Dave!

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:25 pm

Pascal wrote:
Kev,
Would you strip the primary gearbox (high/low) too? Or just the secondary gearbox?
I plan to remove the gearbox housing in the near future.

Thats up to you Pascal, BUT while you have everything stripped, there's no time like now. I would.
If you strip and clean the primary box internals, and find nothing wrong, then you can reassemble it knowing that it has been checked. You may even have a part of the broken bearing cage in there, so you can't take the risk.

Have you found anything else wrong with the gearbox
Kiwi Kev

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:31 pm

Hello Pascal,

The design of the tractor is so that you do not have to separate the gearbox from the rear axle housing.

Just cut the wire, undo the bolts and pull. It should come out without problems.

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:55 pm

Hi guys,

Thank you again for your advices! I really appreciate them!
I will strip the primary gear box, to be sure. You're right, Kev.

Today I removed the gearbox housing and removed the second of the two broken bearings:

Here's some more metal slurry:

Some of the Y-things, that hold the rollers, got loose. The arrow shows the "points", that match in the bearingcage, are off.

I will buy the two new bearings and reassemble everything. That may take a few weeks because of other things, that need to be done.
Would you replace the bolts, that connect the rear axle with the gearbox housing? They look okay, except for some rust and being 50 years old.

I'll keep you updated.

henk · Post by **henk** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:50 pm

Pascal,

Thumps up

I think you found it all now.
I would use the bolts again except if the thread is worn.

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:28 pm

Pascal wrote: I will buy the two new bearings and reassemble everything.

Don't forget the 2x seals also.

You probably know this, but some bearings in the gearbox are a 2 part bearing(can't remember the correct name for it) The inner or outer race can be removed from the rollers and the other half of the race(without it all falling apart).
When you order the bearings, take the existing part numbers, or better still take the 2 halves of each bearing along for them to measure, identify the type of bearing or read the part number. Then if they order the wrong type

it's not your problem.

Kiwi Kev

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:34 am

Hi,

I'm reading the post again and see that I wasn't fully awake yesterday. I replied on a older post, the gearbox was allready stripped out.

Good that you found the problem Pascal.

Gubbels · Post by **Gubbels** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:04 am

Hi Pascal,

Good to hear that you found the broken bearings, When I replaced several bearings from the gearbox, I ordered bearings from NSK, they were a lot cheaper than SKF bearings and is also a good quality bearing. If you need cilindrical roller bearings you need to pay attention to the version of were the rollers are mounted to. There are version on which they are mounted to the outer ring, but there are also version which they are mounted to the inner ring. I believe all the bearings in the gearbox are from the version which they are mounted to the inner ring. At NSK bearings the version is called NF. I have replaced 3 of these bearings, which had the following number: NF305, NF405 and NF406. Here is a catalog of NSK (there are a lot of different versions): http://www.nsk.com/products/rollerbeari ... 4-B109.pdf

good luck with it/kind regards,

Arno

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:13 pm

Hi guys,

Thank you for your advises! I really appreciated them.
Today I finally got some time to work on the primary gearbox again.

I guess the drive shaft needs to be replaced, since the splines are pretty worn?

These two things are a bit a pain in the but to me..

Tomorrow I am hopefully able to make a tool to loosen the screw. I can't get the snap ring off withour braking..

Anybody an advice to get iot off?

Since I am not really handy with cutting paper gaskets, I would rather use liquid gasket. Would that be okay?

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:58 pm

The trick to making gaskets is to use a hammer to cut them out. You just put the gasket paper over whatever u want to make a gasket for, then gently tap the edges with a hammer.

henk · Post by **henk** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:11 pm

Pascal,

Use two screwdrivers and a lot of patience.

If you want a workshop gasket making, just call.

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:06 am

Hi guys,

Yesterday I ordered some new bearings for the gearbox.
I also went to the NH-dealer for some gaskets. It seems they can deliver some of them. I'll keep you updated about this. The gaskets are a bit to
hard for me to make them myself.

I have also ordered a new/good bevel gear, a new/good main drive shaft and all the seals.

Together with my uncle I managed to get the snap ring of...quite a struggle.
My uncle made a tool (out of a round pipe) to get the "bolt with 4 wholes" of.
The gearbox is almost empty now...just the Hi/Lo. That goes pretty stiff (also in the past) on my tractor.

I guess that's not normal?
I'll try to get it off next week.

The weather over here is pretty sunny

, so I'll try to get some painting done today.

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