lack of power

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super6
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lack of power

Post by super6 »

I purchased a 1964 npsm awhile back with a broken diesel pump, i have now got the pump mended and tractor running, with about 1.5 tonnes on trailer it really struggles to make it up any hill in 3rd high, it puts out loads of black smoke but seems to have no torque at all, it is also breathing heavily from rocker an dip stick,the pump went back on coupling so i have not changed timing from original settings any thoughts on getting more power or do i need a rebuild.

Kiwi Kev
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Re: lack of power

Post by Kiwi Kev »

super6 wrote:
1.5 tonnes on trailer it really struggles to make it up any hill in 3rd high,
breathing heavily from rocker an dip stick,


do i need a rebuild.
You've prety much anwsered your own question
Kiwi Kev
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66 Ford 5000 6X (semi retirement)
International 784 4WD
& looking at another tractor!

Supermanuel
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Re: lack of power

Post by Supermanuel »

Air filter may be clogged. Check even the upper part of filter. Before you have tried to run the engine with heavy load several hours with new turbo diesel oil, it is not possible to know if only piston rings are stuck.

Check also timing of pump, 21 degr. advance.
New Performance Super Major Manuel 08D970466

Kiwi Kev
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Re: lack of power

Post by Kiwi Kev »

super6 wrote: 3rd high,
The gears are numbered from 1 to 6 in order of speed. (raised numbers on the top of the transmission, beside the gear lever)
Gear 3 happens to be the slowest gear in the high range.

If you are referring to the 3rd gear in the high range, then that is top gear, and I'm not surprised you can't tow 1.5 tonnes up a hill.

Which gear are you referring to
Kiwi Kev
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66 Ford 5000 6X (semi retirement)
International 784 4WD
& looking at another tractor!

Nick
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Re: lack of power

Post by Nick »

Very true kev, my major struggles to pull just itself up some hills in top gear! :lol: :lol:
Oh yay, look, another seized bolt! Lets get a hammer.....and some kano.....and some cider!

super6
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Re: lack of power

Post by super6 »

i guess i should have said 6th gear,
this tractor has the fl head engine, i was expecting it to pull better than a diesel major but it does not.
previous owner had it on a log splitter for several years so i was expecting it to be glazed up, or maybe have stuck piston rings.
how can i tell if rings are stuck and if they are stuck is there a way to unstick them.

Nick
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Re: lack of power

Post by Nick »

You could try putting some oil down the bores through the injector holes. If you try this, measure the compression before and after the oil, if it changes drasticaly it may be rings.
I wonder whether its not breathing, but maybe some leaking valves, letting compression past them, thus lowering compression.
Im not sure how much compression they should have, but i think around the 450psi mark?
Oh yay, look, another seized bolt! Lets get a hammer.....and some kano.....and some cider!

super6954
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Re: lack of power

Post by super6954 »

super6 wrote:i guess i should have said 6th gear,
this tractor has the fl head engine, i was expecting it to pull better than a diesel major but it does not.
previous owner had it on a log splitter for several years so i was expecting it to be glazed up, or maybe have stuck piston rings.
how can i tell if rings are stuck and if they are stuck is there a way to unstick them.
Hi Was just wondering what the ratio on the diff was compared to the ordinary major as that will make a difference and I am not to sure what the power in crease was over the ordinary major. could be so small that the average guy would not notice the extra power.
as we have said in other posts to would a hundred horse tractor pull the load up the hill in top as we don't know how steep the hill is Maybe you do have other problems it's kinda one of those how long is a piece of string questions for an internet forum :wink:
Regards Robert
A Fordson is for life not just for Christmas !.

super6
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Re: lack of power

Post by super6 »

i do have a compression tester some where, if anyone knows correct pressure that would be good to know,
tractor starts really easily from cold so i would guess compression is ok.

this model does have the faster backend ratio so that may affect pulling power some what,

my 6 cylinder 100bhp will pull 4 ton up same hill without changing gear.

thanks for all the ideas next step injectors out if weather is good at weekend, ( should i remove all of injectors or take one out and check pressure then repalce and so on.)

Nick
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Re: lack of power

Post by Nick »

because of how easy the injectors are to get out i would do all four. if it seems ok, then like supermanuel says, maybe check the air filter and timing.
if it hasnt done much hard work before you had it, the head could be all coked up, which was why i mentioned the valves etc.
does it smoke any blue when running? when its cold, does it pull any better or the same?
Oh yay, look, another seized bolt! Lets get a hammer.....and some kano.....and some cider!

super6
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Re: lack of power

Post by super6 »

Image

here is the pump coupling, the fibre spacer and timing adjuster where in place when i bought tractor i just had pump overhauled and replaced it,
how do i know if timing is correct, i can see several marks and 3o is stamped on there aswell.

also how do i get picture bigger, on my computer its 2.6mb and full size, when i upload to photobucket it changes to size above, if i try to resize on photobucket it goes all fuzzy and out of focus.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5030/555 ... f64a_z.jpg
here is a better link to try

thanks Brett

cwayne
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Re: lack of power

Post by cwayne »

I do not think my Majors would pull that load up much of a hill in 6 th speed either, The blow by at the dipstick if not a stoped up breather line :D , indicates stuck , broke or worn rings. :(
My 63 ford 5000 ( super major ) has 365 PSI all clyinders, newly rebuilt , engine has not been run in yet.
Information that I found on a boat site and I believe it was in refrence to the Leaman engine, said 330-400 PSI. some other diesel site stated 330 was o.k. anything under 300 is trouble. :?:
You should pull all injectors before testing , make it easier on the starter, and make sure battery and starter is in good shape as cranking speed is important and the same speed from first to last cylinder.
Anyone doing a compression test on the earlier Majors with the vacuum gov. it is nescessary to open the throttle fully.
Wayne in Virginia USA
1953/57 Major/wheels of a fortune
1963 Super Major (Ford 5000)
1955 Ford 600

JC
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Re: lack of power

Post by JC »

Brett
All of those extra marks on your aftermarket coupler don't really matter. The only one that you need to pay attention to is the one on the pump half of the coupler, that lines up with the pointer.

Turn the engine until the timing mark on the flywheel is on 21 degrees. Check to see that you are on the compression stroke on no. 1 cylinder. Normally the head of the pinch bolt on the coupler is pointing down when you're on the right stroke, but I'm not sure about an aftermarket one. It would be best to make sure that both rocker arms are loose on no. 1 cylinder. Now the mark on the back coupler half should line up with the pointer. If not, loosen the two bolts in the coupler and turn the pump until the marks line up.
That should get your engine timed.

super6
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Re: lack of power

Post by super6 »

JC i have followed your instructions for timing, my mark on coupler appears to be 180 degrees out, ie it is at the bottom and marker line is at the top,
question is would the engine run if timing was 180 degrees out, or have i done something wrong.
i did not want to pull pump off to check it the other way round until i checked with you guys, as it starts and tick overs perfectly like it is.

JC
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Re: lack of power

Post by JC »

Brett
I posted that at 11:39 pm yesterday, so it wasn't as clear as it could have been. The timing marks on the flywheel will line up in two different places. Once when the no. 1 cyl. is on compression stroke and once when its on the exhaust stroke. You need to make sure that its on the compression stroke. After thinking about it when I'm more awake, the pinch bolt on the coupler will be under the coupler when you are on the right stroke, no matter which coupler you use. If the bolt is on the top, you need to rotate the engine one more turn. The mark on the coupler should then line up with the pointer, or be within a few millimeters of it. If it doesn't line up exactly, loosen the two bolts in the coupler and line the marks up.
A Major won't run if its 180 out of time. Just a few degrees out will make it run bad.

super6
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Re: lack of power

Post by super6 »

thanks for all the input guys, timing was out by about 3mm,
i have not had time to do a loaded run yet but it ticks over with less smoke, i am guessing it was over fueling a little before.

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Re: lack of power

Post by muz »

I run a 57, 58 power and a 61 super, both the the air guvernor tractors seem to have more grunt than the 61super and Ive just assumed it was a fault with the pump ? It doesent smoke any more than the others though, but I think all of them would struggle with a load in top gear on a hill

super6
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Re: lack of power

Post by super6 »

I think i may have found the problem with low power,
after driving for 30 mins with timing in correct place the engine died, it turned out the fuel tank filter was blocked solid.
That will teach me for believing previous owner, who claimed whole fuel system had recently been drained and cleaned. :curse:
I think i will still check compression thou because of the breathing.
thanks for all the help Brett

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Re: lack of power

Post by Supermanuel »

If the engine has been running at low load for longer periods, check for following troubles. Stuck piston rings. Running several hours at heavy load with new turbo diesel oil will get them loose again.

Inlet/exhaust channels may be partly clogged. Even the valves may have heavy coke deposits. The crankcase ventilation may be clogged at valve cover. If you are loading the engine heavily nighttime, the deposits in muffler may start to burn and the exhaust works as a flame thrower.

To check timing, turn the engine until pointer and mark matches. Then open the small cover at bellhousing, turn the flywheel to 21 deg. and adjust at coupling.
New Performance Super Major Manuel 08D970466

Roadless63
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Re: lack of power

Post by Roadless63 »

If you have a blocked tank filter I suggest checking the lift pump too. I came accross one once which had filled up inside with crud. I am referring to the later type as found on supermajors not the early ones with built in glass sediment bowl. Undo the centre bolt and see if the inside is bunged up. Over periods of inactivity the sediment settles out. Obviously a fuel filter change should be considered too.
If you dont know much of its history rule nothing out. I had an AEC Matador recently which seemed to run well, tick over, start straight up but lacked any power. After checking all the same things you have checked I discovered the throttle linkage had been tampered with and I was not getting full fuel or anywhere near it. A quick adjustment transformed the truck!

Kiwi Kev
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Re: lack of power

Post by Kiwi Kev »

muz wrote:I run a 57, 58 power and a 61 super, both the the air guvernor tractors seem to have more grunt than the 61super and Ive just assumed it was a fault with the pump ?
I seem to remember that Super Majors (or some SM) have different diff ratios compared to Majors, Power Majors.
Someone else will be able to confirm which models
Kiwi Kev
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66 Ford 5000 6X (semi retirement)
International 784 4WD
& looking at another tractor!

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