Hydraulics not working

[Robbie]

Hi,

Today I tried to get the lift arms to go up and down but they dont move at all. The PTO was engaged, the selection lever in position controll en the flowcontroll knob is broken of but I can turn the axle that is underneath. ( I can turn this axle around without it beeing stopped)

So what is the best way foreward and are there things I can test before I take things appart?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Regards,
Rob.

[Brian]

First thing would be to get/borrow a different Auxiliary Service Unit, the bit with the flow control in it, change that and see what happens. You also need to know whether you have any oil circulating so, with the Auxiliary Service Unit off, just touch the starter and see if oil squirts out of the ports. DO NOT START THE ENGINE or it will get very messy!

You may need to take the lift off. Heavy lifting! There are many posts on here about lifts and again, there are pictures on the Wiki. No lift symptoms indicate pump faults, that would be my first thought.

Also remember, you have a New Performance Hydraulic System which is different to the plain Super.

[Robbie]

Also remember, you have a New Performance Hydraulic System which is different to the plain Super.

I tried to get if off but somehow it does not want to move, but I found a lot of documentation on a swedish forum and it has a suplement for the hydraulics on the new super major, this looks verry much like the tractor I have and at least enables me to identify the parts and hopefully, show me how to get the unit off.

Regards,
Rob.

[Robbie]

Never mind the previous post! It helps when you loosen ALL the set-screws.

The oil came out, quite a lot of it and as I was looking at the other side, i did not see if it was with a lot of force. So the pump seems to be working and now take the lift off ?

Regards,
Rob.

[Brian]

Try an Aux Service chest first. If yours is faulty it could be the problem.

[Robbie]

Is the aux service chest the same thing as the aux service unit which I already took off? I did search this forum and the internet but it is still unclear to me so, I am sorry for all the questions but I want this thing to work so I can finaly chip all the wood that is laying around in our garden.

Regards,
Rob.

[Robbie]

Hi,

I wonder if its possible to put compressed air in to one of the ports under the aux service unit to see if the lift arm will move at all?

Kind regards,
Rob.

[Brian]

1, Yes.
2, Not really, you need a sustained pressure of 12 psi in the return line to get the unload valve to work, this switches the oil flow to the check valve to allow oil into the cylinder. You will not be able to do all that with compressed air and make sure the system works.

[super6954]

Hi Just reading you post on the hydraulic problem I am wondering if the unload valve is stuck in the lift cylinder body. I have had the same problem with a couple of super majors in the last few years and more so with the ones that had milky hydraulic oil in . I took the valve out very carefully cleaned it so it was not scored or damaged put it back in and away the hydraulics went .
Regards Robert

[Robbie]

Hi,

Just back from Marokko with temperatures of over 40 degrees celcius, now here in holland 15 degrees max

So testing the lift arms is difficult using compressed air, to bad. The problem is that I am not sure where to start, the aux "pull" knob is defect, the speed controll is broken off the aux service unit. on erythingattachments.com. There is a video where "Ted" shows how he lifts the arms by hand, here I am unable to get any movement in the lift arms. Is this normal or could the unload valve be blocked?

Greetings,
Rob.

[Robbie]

Hi,

After a long time I tried to get the lift arms working but still no succes. I checked the unload valve and cleaned it but it still wont work.
I tried to get a aux service unit but no luck there so I can not test if thats the problem.

Can I take the service unit appart and clean and/or repair the valves inside?

Kind regards,
Rob.

[4040t]

Hi Just reading you post on the hydraulic problem I am wondering if the unload valve is stuck in the lift cylinder body. I have had the same problem with a couple of super majors in the last few years and more so with the ones that had milky hydraulic oil in . I took the valve out very carefully cleaned it so it was not scored or damaged put it back in and away the hydraulics went .
Regards Robert

Sorry to hyjack the post, but I'm also having ongoing problems with the hydralics on a SM
You mention an unload valve. Is this internal on the main ram/cylinder?
The latest problem was it would not drop the arms even with the lever all the way down, I got it down by lifting to the very top (pressure release valve working) then after that they dropped
I think the top casting needs to come off, but it doesn't help when you don't know what your looking for!
Thanks

[super6954]

Hi
Im not sure that your problem is that valve sticking , all the problems i had with the unloading valve just meant i had no lift meaning the arms where down what ever i did with the levers or spool operation maybe it depends where its stuck it could even be the control valve spool i don't no for sure .
The valve is located in the ram body under the top so to get at it the top has to come off. To be honest super hydraulics are a pig to diagnose in the workshop some times and on the net its even harder because sometimes a guy sees something that doesn't look right , or trys something and it works if it is in front of you. I would get a service manual as it will have settings in as well or search the case newholland parts books on line that will give pictures of the parts and location.
And of course we will try too if we can there has been loads of topics on super hydraulics
Regards Robert

[Robbie]

Hi,

I made a mistake, I did NOT clean the unload valve but thr controll valve. Today I tried to get the unloadvalve out but I could not get it out.
I dont have the right tool so I have to make one but does anyone know what tread is inside? A M8 bold is to small, the bolds thad hold the controll valve does fit but the tread (?) is different.

BUT ! after I tired to get the unloadvalve out, the arms are moving, I can stop them with my hands, but there is movement!

So, how can I make a tool to get the unloadvalve out?

Regards,
Rob.

[super6954]

Hi,

I made a mistake, I did NOT clean the unload valve but thr controll valve. Today I tried to get the unloadvalve out but I could not get it out.
I dont have the right tool so I have to make one but does anyone know what tread is inside? A M8 bold is to small, the bolds thad hold the controll valve does fit but the tread (?) is different.

BUT ! after I tired to get the unloadvalve out, the arms are moving, I can stop them with my hands, but there is movement!

So, how can I make a tool to get the unloadvalve out?

Regards,
Rob.

Hi Rob Sorry for not getting back sooner.
I have had my super apart today the thread for that plug is 3/8" fine thread not metric . you have to make an adapter to fit a slide hammer to get it out. the plug is about an inch deep in the housing. Im not sure if you could make a puller with a long bolt with that thread and use a nut thick washer and a spacer to pull the plug out if you don't have the slide hammer. Mine was in so tight it took some hits with the slide hammer to remove it and not sure if the nut on that small a bolt thread would strip before it pulled the plug but maybe worth trying .

My hyds where dead, when i got into it the control valve was stuck tight and the unload valve had to be beat out with a good punch and hammer it was so bad. (the end of the valve is about 3/8 diameter looking from the opposite end to the plug, you will see the hole in the bushing And the end of the valve in it punch it to the plug end .) It had some rust on it and a small amount of pitting . I polished it and the control valve as best i could with like 600 grit wet n dry paper with oil for lubrication. (trying not to take to much metal of) I then took the main piston out the body and honed light rust from that and flushed the housing and put it back together with a new ram seal. Its easier to do it now than find it leaks down and it has to come apart again .
Hopefully i will get the unit back on the tractor tomorrow with new oil and it will work for me
Regards Robert

[Robbie]

First of all thanks for your answer ho to get the bush out. Yesterday i was thinking about the slide hamer but i dont have one here. Ill try a bold with a pipe and hopefor the best

I dont want to scare you but in multiple posts Brian warns not to use sandpaper on the valve, only polish. .....
So i hope it will work at theend of the day for you.

I will post the results later.

Regards,
Rob.

[super6954]

Hi Rob
Thanks for the warning .Yeah I Know about the sand paper its kinda pushing it a bit , these valves are in pretty bad shape when I get them out and it would take months to do them with polish , if it would work at all on these and new ones are hard to get I believe .
I only use the real finest wet and dry I can get. and don't go wild with it. when I work on Belarus valves we have to do the same with them. I have never had a problem with the major ones not working after, I get the odd belarus one that doesn't but then they are pretty well beat when you try it . I guess its experience in how far to push it and probability is very high that one day I wont be lucky
Regards Robert

[Robbie]

There are some spare parts but new but it will get more and more difficult to get new parts. On the other hand, is it not possible to make some of the parts like the valves if you have a turning machine?

Here in holland I can not find 3/8 UNF bolts in small quantities, today I called and searched the internet but no luck. So Ill have to wait till I go to work on tuesday and hope I have some credits left in the workshop.

Regards,
Rob.

[super6954]

Hi Rob
Yeah I guess everything in Europe is metric now It was like that when I lived in England standard NC or NF thread was not always on the shelf but metric all you want. Now Im in Canada its hard to get metric I have to go to the right guy. Its even worse with import stuff with metric hyd fittings .

Well on a good note my hydraulics work I did find another problem after the top was on though .
When the tractor was running the lift was like yours you could stop it with your hand, But to get that movement the tractor had to rev flat out . I put a gauge on the tip port and had 100 psi flat out motor and nothing at idle.
I got another spare diverter valve of the shelf and put that on. The lift worked perfect but some seals leak on that block . I took the old one and my I&T manual and sat and studied a bit and the only thing I could think was it said There is a flow control valve in the back of the diverter valve.

After some head scratching i got the valve out it was rusty and stuck like the ones under the top and you cant get on it to push it through and no threads in it to pull on .
So Im thinking that if you clean the other valve in side the top cover and it is still the same you might have the same problem as i did in the diverter as well .
Regards Robert

[Robbie]

Why do I keep proving that i am the a..ho.. that I am?

Today i thougt of de dealer that does the maintenance of the lawnmower I have, he is always helping me out when I need stuf that is less common in holland, I called him and just boldly asked for a 3/8 UNF bold.
Oh yes, i have those he said.
So the bold was almost under my nose I just picked it up, for free. I think I am going to call this man a friend

So maybe I get it done this weekend.

@super6954...
This is sort of bad news because I have to rev up the engine to the max as well to get movement and I dont have a clue what the diverter valve is But I will have a look on the pdf I have here, I think ill clean that vave first before I take the top off.

Regards,
Rob.

[super6954]

Hi Rob
Sorry to confuse you the diverter valve is the selector valve bolted on top of the hydraulic cover.

when you look at the unit on the back there is 2 little plugs one sits high near the top and it has a little screw in the side of the chamber. the valve you need to look at is in that part of the housing, Remove the hole unit punch the roll pin out that holds the plug in clean the hole as best you can you might find the plug pops out when the pin is out, if not poke in the center of the plug you should find a small hole, its probably a standard thread again I had one luckily in a box of old screws , But a guy could use a small self tapper as long as it bites to pull the plug i guess

when that plug is out there is a spring in there and the valve in the bottom.
as I said before there is a hole in the valve but no threads or anything. It may be possible to put a tapered wooden dowel in and tap it with a hammer and use the dowel to work the valve out. Mine was so tight i found a steel bolt that was bigger than the hole, Ground the first few threads a bit then gently tapped it in with a hammer to bite in the valve, Then twisted and wiggled the valve out that way just like a dentist pulling teeth . If you have to do this I would be very carefull as it would be very easy to spread the valve in the housing or break it and wreck it totally . this way would make Brian I think
When or if you get the valve out clean the valve and flush the bore till it slides in really nice and smooth. Yes I did use wet and dry paper on mine , It was a mess like the other 2 .
when you put it back together you will need a new ring to seal the plug to stop oil leaking.
Regards Robert

[Robbie]

Well Robert, I had the bold and thought, lets give it a try. If it still does not work I can always try the diverter valve.
But the bush of the unload valve wont come out So now ill take a or two and tuesday Ill go to the toolshop at my work to build a tool that operates like the tool I see in the manuals, and get the slidehamer just in case

Lets just hope I dont have to pull that plug as well because all in all I have spend maybe 20 hours on this unloadvalve and it did not move a bit, AT ALL!

Ill keep things posted!

Regards,
Rob.

[Robbie]

Hi,

Just a update for who is interested...

The 3/8 UNF bold came out of the plug, threads and all But then I took a M10 tap because I did not have a M12 and tapped the thread, took a M10 bold, a 25MM wrench to serve as a bus and to my suprise the plug came loose and I was able to get the valve out and clean it. There was no rust but the valve had gone black a little so I polished it and put it back.

I had to use a hamer and a bold to get it out but now I can slide it back and forth by hand

Tomorrow I will place the top on the tracktor and hope for the best.
Regards,

Rob.

[super6954]

Hi Rob
Was wondering how things where going with your project Glad to hear you are still working on it, I thought maybe ya got mad and left the country good luck tomorrow and hope the battle is finally over with the hydraulics
Regards Robert

[Robbie]

Well,

Today I left early from my work and 1 hour later I tested the lift. And they WORK! They can lift me but I have no lift arms/links so I can not test it with the woodschipper attatched.
The previous owner told my girlfriend he still had some parts so Ill give him a call tomorrow, maybe he still has the lift arms.

If not Ill have to see if I can find some universal or build them from thick steel.

And I can get mad when things wont work but in this case I had a suprisingly calmness

Kind regards,
Rob.