The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

this motor is in a fordson major, now the motor has no. 58528 above the inj pump. preceded by a stamped R. has the gov. inj pump and drum brakes. i would like to know if anyone can tell me if the oil pump relief valve would be on the pump or in timing cover area? my manual does not have this serial no.

Are you sure that it's an R and not an S. Industrial engines has the letter S. If it was an original Fordson Major tractor engine, it would have the tractor serial number. Alot of tractors were repowered with industrial engines.
Is the injector pump a mechanical governer or vacum governer? Vacum will have 2x vacum pipes going around the front of the rocker cover to the butterfly on the inlet manifold.
Engine casting should have a date casting on it.

(My industrial engine in my Major has a date under No 1 exhaust of 6 H 23 which equals 1966 Aug 23
Head has the date above No 2 exhaust of 10 8 66, different format, but you get the idea.)

Dont forget

Kiwi Kev

well it deffinately looks like an R. yes it is a vacum style gov. on inj. pump. under the exhaust are the nos. L5Z then under that is a 3.dont know if all this helps or not. i just want to determine if the oil pump has its relief vale on the pump, or in the timing cover. thank again.

willy wagon wrote:well it deffinately looks like an R. yes it is a vacum style gov. on inj. pump. under the exhaust are the nos. L5Z then under that is a 3.dont know if all this helps or not. i just want to determine if the oil pump has its relief vale on the pump, or in the timing cover. thank again.

Hi
The only way to tell if nobody knows from those numbers is to measure the sump where the oil pump sits.
This is dependent if you have an old style timing case valve with a new style sump fitted as a replacement though as has been known to happen, so might not be 100% fool proof .

The sump location for a relief valve pump is deeper to give room for the valve to fit. the old type sump wont fit a relief valve pump as the location is not deep enough .
I could look at what I got here and try and get a measurement and possibly a picture of both pans and tell you the difference between them if needed

Or you got to take the timing case cover off and see whats in there. I guess that would be easier than taking the pan off and looking in there .
The other thing I just thought, does your sump have an aluminium plate bolted in the bottom with the drain plug in. As only the non relief valve sumps had this in cast tractor sumps .
Regards Robert

L5Z is Sept 5, 1956. The oil pump with the integral relief was introduced in Apr. of 1957, so yours should be the old style without the relief in the pump. Like Robert said, different replacement parts may have been used over the years, so the only way to know for sure is to take off the timing cover or the sump.

thanks a lot for the info guys. i compared the sumps today, it deffinately is not as deep by the oil pump as the super major, also it does have the big aluminum plate on the sump drain. tomorrow will try and see if the relief valve is in the timing cover.

can this relief valve be shimed up? if so how much should it be shimed?

willy wagon wrote:thanks a lot for the info guys. i compared the sumps today, it deffinately is not as deep by the oil pump as the super major, also it does have the big aluminum plate on the sump drain. tomorrow will try and see if the relief valve is in the timing cover.

Hi
If it has the old sump unless its running with no relief valve at all it's got to be there the new style pump will not fit in your oil pan as thats why they are different the new pump is about 2 " longer .
I have never shimmed one but don't know if Bear Creek Majors ( Pat) has, I think from memory someone was playing with relief valves in pumps a while ago on here, but not the timing case ones.
My book says it's a replace only unit. I seem to think its kinda crimped at the end so it's hard to get apart if you can even get it apart to re assemble it. I don't have one laying around to look at right now .
It could be the springs weak if you lucky But more than likely the shells/ crank and probably the oil pump are worn and it needs a re build. Thats what i usually find
Regards Robert

Why do you want to know about the releif valve for?
Do you have a problem with oil pressure or lack of oil pressure.
If the engine has been changed, but you still have the old sump, then you may not have a PRV, which may mean that your oil pressure is up around 150psi.
Ask me how how know
Kiwi Kev

oil pressure is about 25# checked with a couple of gages.

willy wagon wrote:oil pressure is about 25# checked with a couple of gages.

So, if you've got an old sump, you've either got a PRV in the timing cover, or a very worn engine or oil pump.
Do you have any reasons to be concerned about the oil pressure i.e. noisey engine or knocking?
Is that 25 psi with oil cold or hot, idle or mid revs.
What is the condition of your engine, rebuilt, or original?
25 psi is not too bad. Plenty poeple would love to have 25psi.
Kiwi Kev

Kiwi Kev wrote:

willy wagon wrote:oil pressure is about 25# checked with a couple of gages.

So, if you've got an old sump, you've either got a PRV in the timing cover, or a very worn engine or oil pump.
Do you have any reasons to be concerned about the oil pressure i.e. noisey engine or knocking?
Is that 25 psi with oil cold or hot, idle or mid revs.
What is the condition of your engine, rebuilt, or original?
25 psi is not too bad. Plenty poeple would love to have 25psi.
Kiwi Kev

Hi Kev
Not wanting to put our guy down here, he seems to be a very particular guy and i find in my mechanic work there aren't many around these days .
I think you are on the right track with the 25 psi , there was a discussion a few weeks ago with his super major and the same thing.

I have majors like i said here then, that don't run 10 psi when hot, and guys i got them from said they been like it 20 years, so more like 30-40 with some farmers and the fact they do't want to admit that the last proper service the thing got was 2 days before the warranty ran out in 1959

I will re do mine one day but as I won't use them for work, im not too bothered right now. I just seem to be the local retirement home for old Majors round here that nobody wants .
They run good enough for my needs. My working super has a full rebuilt motor and doesn't hit 45 psi cold .
I would be more concerned with 25 psi if i was plowing a 1000 acres a year or it suddenly dropped off to 10 or less while working in a short time.

so my thoughts are pretty much the same as yours really .
If its not knocking or rattling more than the valves need adjusting leave her alone . I would just work her steady in her semi retirement, people say here drive it like you own it not stole it . It should go for ages and probably out last us all.
In another 50 years these will still be at vintage shows and be a 100 Things like these new electronic hollands and deeres will be long gone 25 years from now
Regards Robert

ya i suppose i am kind of fussy. kind of enjoy working these old things. it doesnt vary that much hot or cold. that bieng said i have no place to workit can only let it warm up. just for curiosity sake i got the timing cover off and put a couple small shims under the spring, will see what that will do. actually it does not knock runs not bat really. thanks again.

willy wagon wrote:ya i suppose i am kind of fussy. kind of enjoy working these old things. it doesnt vary that much hot or cold. that bieng said i have no place to workit can only let it warm up. just for curiosity sake i got the timing cover off and put a couple small shims under the spring, will see what that will do. actually it does not knock runs not bat really. thanks again.

Hi
Like I said nice to find someone that does care whats right or wrong no harm in making sure about things .
so if you haven't got a lot to do with it you should have no problems, and it will out last us all as long as nothing odd turns up .
Just watch that gauge when it starts, I don't know how much that pressure may alter with shims. It could be pretty sensitive and too higher pressure can be bad on bearings too . I seem to remember from school the crank needs to float in the oil and if it's to higher pressure it floats to the top and does damage like very low pressure on the shells.
A lot goes in one ear and out the other sometimes in 23 years and some of that did I guess, usually had more problems with no pressure or oil than to high .
Regards Robert