poor starting

[Kirbust]

my fordson new super major has not been rebuilt as far as I know but it has suddenly developed hard starting, the symptoms are as follows as I understand them to be, when trying to start the tractor the neg battery cable & that side of the battery suddenly become very hot to the touch but the other 1/2 of the battery and the battery to starter wire remains cold to the touch and the starter is very slow/sluggish which it was not doing just a mere few days ago, this tractor before that however had prior to my having a transporter deliver it was starting reasonably well although the starter this tractor came with had siezed and has recently been replaced as was the selonoid<sp?> switch with a spring loaded push button selonoid system which worked fine just the other day as I did not like a 2 position toggle switch. has anyone any idea of what the cause might be?....I have a fordson major as well but he just starts when I want it to,
just wish the FNSM would do the same
and I apologise about the first post I put in being in the wrong place

[henk]

Apologies accepted. Such things happens when you are new.
Mostly the part that gets warm is the problem. Is the connection from the neg cable to the tractor clean?

[nzMark]

hi Kirbust, try cleaning all battery terminals and maybe also swap battery from other fordson and try that. symtoms point to either bad connection or crook nattery.
Hope this helps. Mark

[Pavel]

Heat in any wire, regardless of size, indicates resistance -- in your case high resistance. To check this electrically connect a voltmeter [on volts, not amps] between the starter main body and the neg. post of the battery and then operate the starter. Any reading above a volt indicates a connection problem. The suggestions already given, re. connections, should resolve the problem -- remembering also that starter mounting fasteners are part of the earth return circuit.
I have found that a serrated washer placed between a connector and the body earth point provides excellent electrical continuity.
I suspect that your statement that the st.motor had previously been replaced gives the answer -- something has loosened off.
Pavel

[Kirbust]

Hello everyone, I tried cleaning the ground battery (p) cable as this as you know is positive grounded, also
tried another battery which I knew was a good battery and that worked fine without any warmth in
either the cable or battery however the other problem I have not yet mentioned here is that it puffs
out unburned diesel exhaust but is sluggish starting and when it does start after about
10 seconds cranking time it has at first a skip in the engine which straightens out after it gets
warmed up a bit, also have tried that lip pump on the low pressure pump as I thought before writing
here that it may have leaked the fuel back towards the fuel tank but there is no pressure building
up when using the lip pump lever with the engine not yet running so is there a problem that might be
allowing leakback into the fuel tank and what kind of effect would that have on cold startup?....or is
it a sticky injector that resolves itself after its running for about 4-5 minutes or could it be fuel filter
nearly clogged or water logged as I have not had this tractor running much yet since I bought it last july,
also no filters have yet been changed as I am not sure which filter length is the correct one to
use here.
In comparision though the other fordson tractor which I am not sure whether it's a fordson major yet
or what model it is though starts instantly though this one has the throttle down right next to the
high/low range lever whereas the one that's got the bugs in it to be ironed out has the throttle lever
up on the dashboard

[Pavel]

Glad you sorted your electrical problem.
The fuel lift pump.
Pressure is only felt whilst the priming lever is pumping fuel. When the system is full of fuel [primed] the lever is no longer able to move the internal diaphragm because it is in its extended position. In this situation the lever just 'free wheels' as it were which indicates job done.
Injectors.
If the injectors are even slightly carboned up, and/or the internal springs are weak, the pintle pins may not close and seat properly which allows them to 'dribble'. This can cause excessive smoke and a missfire. It also causes a loss of power and higher fuel consumption -- as well as difficult starting.
It is possible that the fuel filter[s] accumulate some water in them. Whilst water sits on top of fuel, if there is only a couple of gallons in the tank some of this water could get sucked through the system and then rise to the top of the filter[s] after the engine stops and cause the initial start-up miss-fire you mentioned. If this is probable then draining the tank, replacing the filter[s] and bleeding the system may well cure the problem.
As with any newly acquired second hand vehicle, a good and thorough service pays dividends as a lot of previous owners sell them only because they develop a few niggling faults that they can't be bothered to sort out themselves.
Pavel

[JC]

Pavel is most likely right about the injectors. Fordson recommended that they be removed and tested every 600 hours!
A couple of other things that make these tractors hard to start are valve adjustment and timing.
Do you have any fuel leaks? If the fuel was leaking back from the injector pump, it would have to be running on the ground or into the crankcase, since the tank is higher than the pump.

[The Swanndri Guy]

Glad you sorted your electrical problem.
The fuel lift pump.
Pressure is only felt whilst the priming lever is pumping fuel. When the system is full of fuel [primed] the lever is no longer able to move the internal diaphragm because it is in its extended position. In this situation the lever just 'free wheels' as it were which indicates job done.
Injectors.
If the injectors are even slightly carboned up, and/or the internal springs are weak, the pintle pins may not close and seat properly which allows them to 'dribble'. This can cause excessive smoke and a missfire. It also causes a loss of power and higher fuel consumption -- as well as difficult starting.
It is possible that the fuel filter[s] accumulate some water in them. Whilst water sits on top of fuel, if there is only a couple of gallons in the tank some of this water could get sucked through the system and then rise to the top of the filter[s] after the engine stops and cause the initial start-up miss-fire you mentioned. If this is probable then draining the tank, replacing the filter[s] and bleeding the system may well cure the problem.
As with any newly acquired second hand vehicle, a good and thorough service pays dividends as a lot of previous owners sell them only because they develop a few niggling faults that they can't be bothered to sort out themselves.
Pavel

Pavel is your diesel different to what we get here as diesel here in New Zealand is lighter than water?

[Pavel]

Oh dear, oh dear!!! [blush, blush -- got that wrong, didn't I.
Thanks SG. Must remember to put brain in gear first.
Pavel

[The Swanndri Guy]

No problem Pavel, I think we are all guilty of "temporary brain fade" Even I'm not immune
A neighbour of mine got 300 litres of petrol recently delivered, with about 80 litres of water
Now that was interesting......

[Pavel]

But it's a bit annoying when one makes basic mistakes -- such as the specific gravity of various fluids and the effects of mixing them.
Know what you mean about water in bulk fuel deliveries. Being on a farm I always pour a litre of metho into a full 200L drum of petrol before using it. It works with petrol -- don't know about diesel, though.
I still feel that Kirbust should investigate the possibility of water in the fuel, amongst other things.
Which reminds me -- what happened to those funnels that had a waxed filter in them? They were pretty good at separating water out.
Pavel

[AdrianNPMajor]

Assuming a clean, uninterrupted fuel line, the first things to check are the tappets adjustment and the timing - they shouldn't be out, but someone may have tinkered in the past. If the problem persists, the next step is to get the injectors and injection pump checked.

Your lift pump sounds fine. It is driven by the camshaft. If you feel no pressure on the priming handle, pull the stop knob out and touch the starter handle until the lift pump comes off the cam. You will then feel pressure on the priming handle.

Best

Adrian