road registration

David in Wales · Post by **David in Wales** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:31 pm

I am about to get a period registration number for my KFD.
Does anyone have positive recomendation for person/club etc to get a dating latter from?
David

rscapriman · Post by **rscapriman** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:50 am

Hi David, I contacted a guy called Thomas Andrews from the Cornish Tractor Club on 01726 883195 he sorted it out for me when I had no log book or reg no with the County 1004.
Regards Len.

BarryT · Post by **BarryT** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:12 am

David,

I have also dealt with Thomas Andrews through the Ford and Fordson Association when I wanted to Register my Dexta. I found him to be excellent.

Barry

David M · Post by **David M** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:26 pm

I have also used Thomas Andrew 3 times now through Ford & Fordson Assoc and would thouroughly recommend him.
Have a look at the bottom of this page;
www.fordfordsonassociation.com/contact/

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:40 pm

Hi David,
How did you get on with your registration? I need to do this for my Dexta. Fortunately we have the original reg doc so hope we can keep the orginal reg no
All the best,
Ben

Tubal Cain · Post by **Tubal Cain** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:46 pm

Don't hold your breath!

Thomas Andrews is hopefully processing the registration for one of my tractors but, if he doesen't pull his finger out the six month limit on my cheque will have expired! When I spoke to him at the Blandford Forum he stated that my application was well down the queue.

I wait in anticipation!

Gerald

NB

Trying to contact him by telephone is impossible as his answering service is always full. So in the light of the other posts on here I must assume that I am just unlucky.

Tubal Cain · Post by **Tubal Cain** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:21 pm

Update.

In spite of my previous post and spurred on by earlier posts, I have just succeeded to speak to Thomas Andrews on the phone. So hopefully my application will become top priority.

Gerald

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:21 am

From someone who dos,nt have his tractor registered for the road, I have noticed that "age related registration" is quite a hot topic, and desirable thing.
What doe's it cost to have your tractor checked for age related registration, and the cost of registration for 12 months.
I'm purely being nosey here, as it seems a desirable thing in the UK.
Thanks
Kiwi Kev

Tubal Cain · Post by **Tubal Cain** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:01 am

Hi Kev,

I sent Thomas Andrews a cheque for £40.00, which presumably will cover all the costs involved in registering my tractor. Once it is registered it will be classed as a Historic Vehicle and although the road tax requires to be renewed every year it is free.

The advantages of the tractor having a registration number is that provided it is insured you can legally drive it on the road. Three of my tractors have retained their original registration numbers which adds to their provenance.

As the tractor which I am waiting to have registered has probably never been registered, it will hopefully be issued with an age related number. This tractor I intend to use for shunting/general duties on my holding also for collecting hay and straw from the neighbouring farms.

My understanding is that if I use it on the road for haulage etc it has to be fitted with a roll bar and as I am a Hobby Farmer it should run on white Diesel.

As I write this it has crossed my mind that by law it shouldn't be taxed as an Historic Vehicle if used for this purpose. Perhaps Brian or other Forum members who use their vehicles on a commercial basis can clarify this.

Regards.

Gerald

Post by **Brian** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:02 am

I think that this is a very grey area. When I got the registration documents for Nuffy, I specifically asked for her to be registered as an agricultural tractor. She came back as an Historic vehicle! I queried this with my local office and the general feeling was "no one uses a tractor that old as an agricultural vehicle" so I left it at that, I wanted the licence and was not prepared to mess around any longer. It had taken FOUR YEARS to get that far. As I only use her locally and am not constantly on the road I am happy until someone tells me I am wrong.

Interestingly though, even if you have the original registration document, that does not guaranty that you can keep your original registration number. I had the brown log book for Henrietta which I sent when she was issued with the green form. I still had to have a Welsh number, they would not allow me to keep her original one.

Regarding the roll bar issue, all tractors use in agriculture or horticulture should have a roll bar regardless of age. It is only accepted not to have one if the tractor is used in the show ring. I don't think the HSE push this too hard but be aware.

The use of white/red diesel is another matter and by rights we should be using white diesel if we are not working a registered holding or farm. This does not include working with horses or livery as these are regarded as a hobby and white diesel is required.

I must admit that I use white diesel nearly all the time unless I help some one out and they give me some diesel as payment.

The Customs people are checking everything around here and seem to be pretty hard on people that they find at fault. The use of red diesel to drive a tractor on the road to a show/demonstration is a case in point. If you drive from the dealer to the show/demonstration it must use white, but if you sell it or have sold it, and deliver it home from the site to the farm, you can use red!

David M · Post by **David M** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:00 pm

We have had a similair experience when we registered our Dexta and then again with our Super Major.
After getting the registration documents for the original numbers we went to our local DVLA office for a tax disc. Both times we asked for them to be registered as Agricultural as they are used for working on the farm. We thought that we couldn't run them on red diesel if they were registered as Historic.
The office clerk, after checking with her superior, advised that a vehicle of this age could only be registered as Historic.
We accepted their word and carry on using them until we are told otherwise.

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:40 pm

So if you have a registered holding rather than being a hobby farmer, you can run a 'historic' tractor on the road on red diesel, assuming you are engaged in an agricultural activity, eg not going to a show?

Can one mix red and white diesel? EG plough on one's land using red then drive to the show on white? How white does the diesel in your tank have to be?
All the best,
Ben

Post by **Brian** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:49 pm

Customs and Excise say you must not mix red and white. If you change from red to white you must completely drain the system, flush out and replace all fuel filters. If you do not, then it is possible that they may confiscate your tractor if you are found to be using red diesel at a time when you should have been using white.

Ignorance of the law is no defence.

Sorry but that is the situation we are in. Customs are not prepared to allow any leeway.

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:11 am

Brian,
Thanks for clarifying that but can we use red in a historic tractor if it's engaged in agricultural activities?

What about 'classic' tractors (post 1960) - can they be registered as agricultural?
Thanks,
Ben

Post by **Brian** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:29 am

Nuffy is 1968!

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:07 pm

Brian wrote:Nuffy is 1968!

Good point. It seems a bit unreasonable though. There must be thousands of older tractors Fergie 35/135's etc still working on farms as scrapers etc. One can see that ultimately HMG would like to do away with red diesel as they don't like farmers. They would rather import 'cheaper' food to the detriment of our balance of payments. Wait till there's a world food shortage!
All the best,
Ben

BarryT · Post by **BarryT** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:35 pm

Hi,

As far as I'm aware it has to be strictly agricultural or forestry work to run on red diesel. I'm led to believe that to show your tractor even if you have carried it there on a trailer has to be on white diesel, they are now that keen, a lady approached me at a show a few months ago and said she witnessed a few vintage tractor owners being done at a show this year for this very thing, so be aware, if it's very little agricultural work you do with your vintage tractor then it's not worth the little saving you would make to get done. I'm on white diesel for everything now, it's simply not worth the hassle.

Regards,

BarryT

Post by **Brian** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:47 pm

You are exactly right Barry. Any show, even an agricultural show is not classed as "agricultural" for the use of red diesel. There is also things like ploughing matches which, although you are turning the soil, you are not doing it for an "agricultural" purpose so you should be on white. If you get a load of logs for the fire this too is a none agricultural use.

There was reports of a farmer towing his combine cutter bar behind a tractor. The tractor then had to be "used" in the field that was being combined otherwise the tractor was classed as being used as a transport and therefore should have been using white.

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:13 pm

Brian wrote:...If you get a load of logs for the fire this too is a none agricultural use.

Forestry perhaps!!

Who exactly does one get 'done' by? Is it the police or Customs & Revenue officers?
All the best,
Ben

Post by **Brian** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:34 pm

Customs and Excise and you don't want to get on the wrong side of those chaps. They can confiscate yoiur vehicle immediately and the resposibility is yours to prove that you have done no wrong. You cannot plead ignorance either.

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:59 pm

As I am not a farmer the only legal use of red for me is if I do some work with the frontloader, or if I am on the way to, or from that workplace. I don´t even have to be payed for that work, just loading something somewear and drive directly back home.

essex pete · Post by **essex pete** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:14 am

Brian has covered most of the pitfalls, but can you be fined for operating off road/highway with red?
How about all the construction industry?
The law has just changed for recreational boats. They are still using red but at road prices for propulsion but can still use rebated for generator and heating (self assessing

)

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:34 am

essex pete wrote:Brian has covered most of the pitfalls, but can you be fined for operating off road/highway with red?
How about all the construction industry?
The law has just changed for recreational boats. They are still using red but at road prices for propulsion but can still use rebated for generator and heating (self assessing )

We have to use white i boats but old red in boat tank from 2007 is legal as long it lasts. The red is of course legal for heating. I added a separat tank for it. The boat fuel stations has higher prices than land stations so I allwaus transport my boatfuel with my pick-up to the boat.

Post by **Brian** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:31 am

If you are not on the road, you are still breaking the law if you are not working in agriculture.

If you are working with a digger on a construction site you can use red diesel and use it for moving from job to job.

The best way to look at it is to say that if it is used for leisure/hobbies/transport it must be white, and it must be white used in a clean system so that there is no trace of red left in it.

Tubal Cain · Post by **Tubal Cain** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:15 pm

I still haven't received the registration documents for my tractor, despite the assurances given to me by Thomas Andrews when I last spoke to him.

One can only assume that he is overwhelmed with applications, in which case there is obviously a need for additional manpower to spread the load.

After all it isn't rocket science, anyone who has Alan Condeys books which give the dates of the relevant casting codes can arrive at an approximate date of manufacture.

As a member of the FFA I intend to contact them and suggest that in the interests of its members the association requires to provide additional resources in order to epedite tractor registration and so avoid these unaccepatable delays.

Gerald

The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

road registration

road registration

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Red / white diesel

Historic vs agricultural tractor

Red diesel