'57 New Major hydraulics not holding + more

[DaveP]

That is why I gave you the codes "fordsontractorpages" and "dotty" Dave, you use those rather than your log on codes. We had to do this to stop "nasties" changing all the information on there.

Hi Brian, stupid me Excellent info re the hydraulic ram replacement.Thank-you

Dave, I used the Bareco head set some 3 years ago; it's the composite gasket, not the shim one. I used Hylomar on the head gasket [and others] -- no leaks so far.
Pavel

Pavel... thanks also for the gasket info. Now knowing it's composite and after reading in the book "The composition type of gasket should be fitted dry but sealing compound of an approved type is recommended for use with the copper/asbestos/permanite gasket." I reckon I'll skip the gasket goo. My torque wrench tops out at 80ft/lbs. Not sure if I should just give an additional nudge to the head bolts or buy one that cover 85-90ft/lbs on ebay. Pavel I also took pics of the ram seal removal, but as you may have seen, Brian has this section well covered.

I''ve also got my radiator away being cleaned out and new hoses ordered...the amount of crud inside the radiator hoses and water channels is incredible. Not sure how to best clean the block water channels out. Having a clean radiator and head, I'm really concerned about crud in the block, how do I clean the block

Also need to get temp and oil pressure guages happening. The originals are still on it, but the temp sensor has been cut and the oil is showing nothing.
Here's how it looks right now.


Thanks as always for the on-going help. Best regards to all from the top of Australia, Dave.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hi Dave

Your Major is an excellent example. The tinwork is great condition, which is a big plus point. Over here in the UK the tinwork more often than not has succumbed to the ravages of our somewhat damp climate!

Cleaning out the water ways is not really possible without dismantling the block, which is a larger job of course. It would be the definitive way of ensuring that you have clean coolant flowing freely around the system. Subsequent use of modern anti-freeze solutions would also ensure that it stayed that way. If this is not an option at the moment, and you have not encountered any overheating problems in the past, then this is a job you could leave for another time.

Re the temperature gauge, I'm not sure if replacements are available for the Diesel Major as they are for the Power and Supers. It could be that you would have to leave the old gauge in situ for aesthetic reasons whilst relying on a modern gauge plumbed into the system perhaps on a bracket made up to fit in the area of the controls where it is visible. This way, you'd have the functionality that you need, whilst retaining the original look of the tractor. A bit like putting a modern extension on a period house - it's obvious the modern is an attachment, leaving the original to be admired for what it is.

Re your oil pressure gauge, is the copper tube linking it to the block disconnected, perhaps because it sprung a leak? I had this on my Diesel Major. A nifty bit of soldering by my plumber friend sealed the leak and the gauge was found to be working still. If you gauge is u/s, these do occasionally come up on eBay. If not, again you could leave the original gauge in situ and rig up a modern gauge on a bracket attached to the block such that it is visible from the driving seat. I have done this on Major and it works well.

Best

Adrian

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[Pavel]

The rad. hoses from Bareco will fit -- but very, very difficult to fit onto their stubs. The worst was the small elbow from the rad. to the filler cap section. Resorted to brake fluid in the end.
Either Repco or Auto One have a capillary type temp. guage assy. which was a tight stretch length wise, but works well. Take the bulb end with you to check the thread. You can get brass thread adapters, if needed from Enzed -- the hydraulic hose people.
Use an electric drill and bit to clean out the water holes in the block, but try not to enlarge them. With the head back on, and with no hoses or thermostat fitted, flush the system with a hose. When you have assembled the motor and are ready to start it, pour into the rad. a litre of Tectaloy HD Rad Flush and fill with water. Run, or use the tractor, for between 1 to 2 hours [but NEVER more than 2], drain, flush 'till running clean and refill with a 500ml bottle of Tectaloy Green Xtra and distilled water [10 litres]. This will protect against electrolysis and cavitation damage -- plus rust and calcium formation.
If you'd had the block out I would have suggested you immerse it in a solution of mollasses and water, having removed all oil and grease. With the temps. you have in the top end it would get rid of all the rust and calcium in less than a week, whereas an engine block I did in Perth took three. Whilst electrolysis is much quicker it is very fiddly, if next to impossible, fitting insulated rods into all the orifices.

Pavel

[fnoller]

http://www.agrilineproducts.co.uk do have both temp and oil gauge for the old lady

[DaveP]

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the helpful info. Just learnt from the radiator guy that mine needs a new core.... he's getting a price for me, but I also see new radiators on ebay. I'll have to do the flush scenario with Tectaloy to clean the block waterways as I'm not taking the block off. This tractor has lived it's life in south east Queensland, near Noosa. I had it freighted to Darwin 6 months ago. The tin work is not really that good Adrian. Once it's together I'll post a few pics.

Thanks again folks..... best regards to all, Dave.

[DaveP]

Hi again folks,

Almost finished my tractor repairs. With the ram seal, the local hydraulics guy has suggested I just use one as I'm unable to find a rubber seal that fits the second position. Someone else told me to use another of the standard rubber seals, but it does not really fit snug in the groove.

Thanks in adavance for your help, Dave.

[AdrianNPMajor]

I personally favour the thicker oil for the gearbox and rear transmission. Soaks up a bit of horsepower, which warms the gearbox wall, but well worth it for the heavy duty lubrication it provides. I put Morris AG90 in my Super by mistake, but I find the hydraulics work ok, if a bit slow, when cold and they're just fine when in work, which is when it counts. And when in work, I get the reassurance that the oil is still viscous enough to be coating the teeth of the gears as they mesh.

Best
Adrian

[DaveP]

Hi again folks,

Putting the front plate and hydraulic control section back onto the ram seal area, do I need to use a pressure resistive gasket paper I have general oil gasket paper, suitable for gearbox covers and sumps, not sure if this is okay for the ram seal sections.

Many thanks, Dave.

[Brian]

Standard gasket paper is fine, I did mine with instant gasket. The pressure is taken by the ")" rings on the pipes and the one inside the ram cylinder.

[DaveP]

Great to know...thanks so much for your help Brian.

All the best, Dave.

[DaveP]

Hi folks,

Finally got mine going again.... rear hydraulics hold...only put the one ram seal in.... she blows grey smoke, no more steam.... gears do not grate ... new guages look pretty ... I can start it in the driver's seat hydraulics work a treat.
BUT I may still have a hidden costly issue
At first start up 40lbs oil pressure at revs... at idle 20... but after 30 mins work slashing, 10lbs at revs... 0 at idle.. plus I reckon I can hear a not good sound..

Also before I started her, she sat for 3 days with oil only in the gearbox... about a litre leaked into the rear diff.... but after the 30 min workout, much more went into the rear diff, so a big leak... I see on the forum lots about transferring the oil out of the rear diff back into the gearbox..... but I'm wondering would it be okay to overfill the rear diff, so it's level matches that of the gearbox.... or would it be disastrous

Pics will follow soon....

I'm off to have a hopeful cheerer upper with a mate.... Can't begin to think what my brother-in law was on about...saying the only problem she had is the remote starter and then later when it was on the truck to me, hydraulics not holding and water in the oil.

Hope you're all having a fine festive time.....

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hi Dave
I'm afraid you really need to rebuild your engine. Running your engine with such low oil pressure is going to make things worse. You also really need to split your tractor between gearbox and rear transmission to expose the gearbox output shaft seal, which is one of two that prevents oil from flowing from the gearbox to the rear end. The other seal is located in the PTO housing slung under the gearbox. This seal can be replaced without removing the gearbox, but it's a lot easier to replace this seal when you remove the gearbox to do the upper seal, because you can flip the gearbox over and the weight of the PTO housing is not working against you as it does when you lie under the tractor. This is important because there is a large O ring involved which is a b*gger to keep in place if you're working from below.
You've got a great tractor that is just in need of some TLC after nearly sixty years of service. Do the above work and you'll have a mean bit of kit with a snarling engine operating at full power.
Best
Adrian

[Spicklas]

I also have a ram piston with dual o-rings, the tractor has been here in Finland all its life. I'm sure it will work with only one seal just as well. I'll leave my both seals on the piston since both the cylinder and the piston are really worn.

And oh, mine is a orange-wheeled super.

[DaveP]

Hi folks,

Thanks for the info Adrian.

I'm finding the vibe from mechanics is to walk away from it..

Spent A$2,000 on it so far in parts and oil, plus it cost me A$3,300 to transport it and a slasher here from my sister's place.
The work needed I cannot do. It seems it would have to go to a workshop for the engine to come out and also to be split for the g/box, diff seals.

I just want to

Dave.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Pity you don't live round the corner, Dave. I'd be glad to give you a hand. You'd find that you'd be able to do the job very well with a helping hand, and you wouldn't have to spend too much more in parts to get a tractor that was in top notch condition again.
Are you sure you couldn't take on the jobs with help from the guys on here?
Best
Adrian

[DaveP]

Hi Adrian,

Really appreciate your offer of help. Would you like a few weeks holiday in Darwin ... bring your family...

My wife and I are pondering what to do... we can't sell it as a working tractor... could only part it out... but then we need a tractor, so do we buy another 2nd hand that could have more problems, a new tractor is way too costly... so I'm getting together an idea of how much more we do need to spend. Cheapest mechanic I've found so far is $95inc GST per hour. Need to figure out how many hours, to do the bottom end and the split. Any ideas He reckons between 15 to 25, so 20.

Can the rings be replaced from the bottom or does the head need to come off
It has a little bit of pressure sump blowout evident at the dipstick, does this suggest more work
Should the linings and pistons also be renewed They seem okay, not too much smoke blowing out when she runs. When the head was off the linings and top of the pistons looked okay, but I'm no expert that's for sure

My biggest worry is , if I was to do it, assuming the crank has to come out, how do I get the engine out, also the gearbox / rear diff leak, how do I split the tractor, as I have no overhead lifting gear, and I doubt my shed roof would support it. Just rang Kennards Hire about this. They have the block & tackle, but not any frame to hang it from, in fact they reckon no one in Darwin has a portable frame for hire

Appreciate everyone's , Dave.

[Pavel]

Don't give up now, Dave. You've spent too much time and money on the Major, so far, to just cut your losses. And even if you get another one, you will undoubtedly have to spend more time and money on it -- as well as the initial purchase price. Whilst 2 grand, plus parts, is a hell of an extra cough up, I recon you could get a reasonably good working Major for less than a couple of hundred dollars -- provided you continue to do it yourself.
Low oil pressure: Drain the oil, drop the sump and remove the oil pump and check the condition of the relief valve. Quite often the split pin holding the spring and plunger in place bends and sags which will cause a loss of pressure. The spring loses its tension which can be increased by inserting 1 or 2 flat washers between it and the split pin. It could also be broken. Check the plunger and its seating for pitting or carbon deposits. If necessary, new pumps from Agriline cost 85 UK pounds. You could also use a 50 grade mono oil to counter the average 30C plus temps you regularly get.
As Adrian mentioned you could replace one of the transmission seals [PTO] yourself without too much hassle -- which will at least lessen the oil transfer loss. On my Major I use a hand held pump to recycle oil back from the diff to the gearbox -- tedious, but it works.
Keep at it, mate. It's worth it.

Pavel

[DaveP]

Thanks for the encouragement Pavel, greatly appreciated.

Yes, we'll be forking out thje $$$ to get the engine fixed. I met a guy yesterday that is a tractor mechanic. I'm strongly thinking I'll get him to do the work. He tells me that the gearbox oil into the rear diff is a problem also with Ford 3000's and 5000's. He says to let the oil be at the same level between the gearbox and rear diff, so the rear diff would be overfilled... he reckons there are no problems with doing this. What are your thoughts folks Surely would reduce my on-going repair bill.

Also with the engine, having the crank out, can new rings be fitted from underneath I'd like to keep the work done on the top as is.

Many thanks for your help, Dave.

[Brian]

Oil transfer from the gearbox to rear axle was never a problem on the '000nd Series, in fact some tractors like the 5000 had a common sump after 1968. There is a large difference in level between the gearbox and rear axle on the Major that is not there on later '000nd tractors. Oil will leak from the rear axle seals if you run gearbox and rear axle at the same level.

The easiest way to transfer the oil back to the gearbox is by putting a pipe on the trailer pipe, running the engine and just raising the control lever. No mess, no cans, no worries.

No, you cannot get the pistons out of the bottom even with the crank out. If you are going to have the crank out then you are going to strip the whole engine so it would be best not to scrimp and save but to check everything.

[DaveP]

Hi Brian,

Thanks greatly for the info.

I have two choices of mechanic..... the one I mentioned already, who would examine the engine first and advise what parts I need to get.... and then another guy who suggests I order a complete engine rebuild kit, saying this as he cannot store the tractor whilst part are ordered, but also saying "while the engine is out may as well re-build the full thing". I kind of felt this was to line his pockets, but then maybe I should get it re-built... just don't know. I do not need a new engine, just one that will be decent. Brian I fully take in what you are suggesting about check everything and I guess after 50 years the linings and pistons probably could do with replacing.

Bugger it's all adding up $-wise

Will add the pipe to transfer the gearbox oil. The tractor certainly shows signs of oil leaking around the rear axles.

Thanks again for all your thoughts on this, Dave.

[Pavel]

I had a wry smile on my face after reading 2 of your comments --"Bugger, it's all adding up $ wise" and "I do not need a new engine, just one that's decent" -- because that's the position I was in some 6 years ago.
So; suggestions -- which may not please the purists.
Low oil pressure can, of course, be caused by a dodgy oil pump or relief valve. In your case, since it records a pressure of 40psi when cold, I would doubt this to be the case. It is much more likely to be worn shell bearings -- big ends, mains and camshaft -- allowing free-flow of the oil from the larger gaps. You can check how serious this is by removing the rocker cover after the OIL reaches its maximum temperature and seeing if oil is reaching the valve rockers at idle revs and higher. If it is then the pressure is mostly adequate -- if not the best.
However, from what you have, yourself, managed to do to the mechanical parts of the tractor I would suggest you are more than capable of fitting new shell bearings to the big-ends and main journals with the engine still installed. You would need to remove the injectors first so as to overcome the compressions. As far as the mains are concerned I'm not sure if the front and rear ones are easily replaced 'in situ', but the middle 3 can be. Provided the journals are not heavily scored they can be 'cleaned up' using strips of 800 wet and dry soaked in kero. With my Super, doing this made a wealth of difference to the pressures which have remained good for the last 6 years. Bear in mind also, if attempting this, that there are different widths of shell bearings according to the date of manufacture.
If you also want to improve operating performance -- starting and running, as well as lessening exhaust smoke -- have the injectors cleaned and re-calibrated.
I would suggest that by doing this you would save heaps of cash and also give yourself a "decent' engine.

Pavel

[DaveP]

Hi Pavel,

Thank-you so much for your reply. I'll still take it to a mechanic, probably the guy that can examine it before parts are ordered. This is due to me having other projects to do.... elec brake controller and Anderson power outlet into my Jeep and also installing Anderson plug, batteries and bits into a recently purchased 2004 Aussie Swag camper trailer. BUT I will surely ask the mechanic to follow your suggestion, tend to think it might be his plan anyway.

Think also I'll talk to him re splitting the tractor to do the two seals, so the gearbox oil stays where it should. My leak is extreme, after running 10 mins the gearbox oil cannot be seen in the filler.

Thanks again Pavel.... I'm a happier person for this Just hope the diagnosis is not serious.

Hove a great day, Dave.

[DaveP]

Hi folks,

Just a quick question as the tractor will soon go off to a mechanic. What part numbers or where do I get the two seals for the PTO and main drive...ala for when the gearbox and rear diff are split
Also can I buy a gasket or does one need to be made

Many thanks for your help, Dave.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hi Dave
Seals and gasket available from New Holland. The link below takes you to the gasket part no. Have a look at the relevant pages on the same site for the seals. The original part nos have changed, but the items are still available. The bottom seal is a double-lipped seal to stop oil transfer from either direction.
Best
Adrian

http://partstore.agriculture.newholland ... 78ar298817

[DaveP]

Many thanks Adrian,

She's off to the mechanic hopefully on Monday. He'll be doing a bottom end check of the engine as Pavel suggested, I just hope he doesn't need to go further..as in engine out. Will advise the outcome when it's all fixed.

My thanks to all on this list. Really have appreciated the help All the best, Dave.