marine fordson agriline rebuild- Newbie

[huw717]

Hi all, first id like to say what a useful and friendly forum this looks to be and that im very glad to have stumbled across it!
Iv got a marinised version of a 4D in an old boat, from what i can make out after much internet research i think it is probably based on an industrial engine rather than one of tractor origin, it has a decompression lever and is has FL cast into the head, and the number is S341280
Its recently started leaking coolant into the sump. on stripping the engine down i found the bottom of the liners to be heavily corroded, and the crankshaft is scored.
Im hoping to be able to rebuild the engine using one of the Agriline Kits, and purchasing new shells etc from them too. Iv never attempted a full engine rebuild before so i expecting a very steep learning curve! I just wondered if anybody had any thoughts or comments on the Agriline kits, they seem to have a pretty good reputation and certainly seem to offer good value for money! also, can you offer any advice to a novice like myself which may help me avoid making too many schoolboy errors? its clear that there is a wealth of knowledge here, and im very much looking forward to learning a bit more about these rugged and well engineered motors.
Thanks in advance
Huw

[Pavel]

Yep; with the FL head it must be a later model so download this w/shop manual:
www.fordson.se/1a_verkstadshandbok_001_031.pdf

Pavel

[Pavel]

Sorry mate; that web page doesn't work.
Just google 'Fordson Super Major diesel engine supplement' and sites with free PDF downloads for the engine and fuel injection pump appear.

Pavel

[huw717]

Thanks Gents, il have a look at that now, I notice that the kit contains valve guides, im guessing that these require use of some sort of press or puller tool to replace?

[Nick]

Sounds like you have a new performance engine, and its also a replacement from ford because of the 's' on the serial number - think im right there?
Because its a new performance, it will have two o-rings around the liners, one at the top and one at the bottom so make sure you get the correct kit from agriline.
What oil pressure was it running before it was taken apart? Have you micrometered the crank journals?
I think you will need a press to remove and re=install the guides, thats how i did it on mine. Also i used a press to replace the small ends, but if you have the correct sized drift, you should be ok.

Got any pictures of it?

[huw717]

Hi, i may have pictures of it somewhere so i will try and dig them out, im sure you are right about it being a ford replacement, whether it was marinsed from you or not i do not know, i think a few firms offered marine engines based on the 4 d . i havent miked the crankshaft journals yet but i did notice that the shells were marked 10 thou undersized. im not sure how deep the scoring is , i rang a local engine shop recently and he said to order the shells first and that they would grind the crank to suit. I wonder what the best method of determining how deep the scoring would be? I would estimate it to be less than 10 thou but couldnt be certain of this. A friend of mine has a lathe so perhaps he could make a suitable drift for the small end bushes

[Pavel]

That 'advice' from your machine shop appears a... about face. Why not find out what OVERSIZE shells are available above the 10thou. already fitted, then tell the machine shop what is available so that they can grind the crank UNDERSIZE accordingly. For your oversize you can get a fairly good idea of the amount of wear/scoring by looking at the shell bearing surfaces. If white metal is still showing in the valleys of the score marks then it is unlikely the wear is greater than between 5 and 10thou [total 10 to 20thou].
2 things as a suggestion. Try using 'plastiguage' to get a better idea. And invest in a digital calliper guage. These last have a quite fine contact area at their toe end, unlike the broad anvil on micrometers.

Pavel

[JC]

Hi Huw
Like Pavel said, the first thing that I would do is get a shop manual. Another thing that may be helpful is to take pictures with a digital camera when you take it apart. You can refer to them when you put it back together.
You will want to check the bottom o-ring grooves to make sure that they aren't too corroded to hold the new o-rings.
You should tell the machine shop which size bearing shells are available and then they can grind the crank to one of those sizes. If you buy the shells first, they may find that they need to remove more material, and you will have to send them back and buy another set.
The S serial number doesn't necessarily mean that your engine is a replacement. It means that your engine was not built for a tractor or a truck.
Good luck with your project and welcome to Fordson Tractor Pages.

[huw717]

sorry Pavel, my bad , not the machine shops, i did mean Oversize ! i do have a cheap digital caliper, i wasnt sure if the accuracy of this would be sufficient but i will try it tomorrow, il also order some plastigauge. On looking at the shells, there is very little visible wear or scoring compared to the crankshaft itself. I had always assumed that this would have been the other way around as id uderstood the shells to be a lot softer than the crankshaft material.
Thanks very much gents for the welcome and encouragement!

[Dandy Dave]

sorry Pavel, my bad , not the machine shops, i did mean Oversize ! i do have a cheap digital caliper, i wasnt sure if the accuracy of this would be sufficient but i will try it tomorrow, il also order some plastigauge. On looking at the shells, there is very little visible wear or scoring compared to the crankshaft itself. I had always assumed that this would have been the other way around as id uderstood the shells to be a lot softer than the crankshaft material.
Thanks very much gents for the welcome and encouragement!

Yes the Shells are softer than the crank. Yet, the crank journals suffer metal loss. This is because the soft shells become impregnated with the harder material that sticks in the babbit and grinds away at the crank. This is why it is very importiant to be very clean when changing the oil and filters in any engine. How many times have you heard someone say, "Oh,..the filter will take it out." Bunk say I. This is because the oil goes through the motor before it reaches the filter and often it is cycled though the motor more than once before it is actually filtered. Some ot the oil just recirculates through the parts and bypass valve and does not get filtered on every single cycle. When you get the engine apart, be sure to clean everything throughly, including all the oil galleys and oil pump passages.

Also, If the engine has ever been line bored from a spun main, you will find that the shells will sometimes be oversize where the shells meet the saddles. This has been disscussed on this forum in lenth before. Be sure of what you have before you order anything. Some of these bearings are very hard to get. Dandy Dave!

[Dandy Dave]

Look Here... http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... ing+shells

[huw717]

Thanks all, for your help and advice, just received the parts from agriline , feels like christmas has come early with the myriad of boxes i have to open!