lift arms

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willy wagon
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lift arms

Post by willy wagon »

i posted this same question some time ago, but have miss placed the info given and did not get to work on tractor rie away. so my super major i rebuilt, initially was not running when i got it. after the rebuild i started to check other things out and fix them. when i raised the lift arms up and tried to loer them they will not lower. i hear talk about a common stuck valve . which valve and what has to be done to fix it? i have the manual but hydraulics are not my cup of tea.

Brian
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Re: lift arms

Post by Brian »

It is the unload valve that is stuck and you have to take the lift off.

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It is behind this threaded plug behind the spring retainer on the front of the ram cylinder. (This is a Dexta).

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The plug has to be drawn out with a puller of some sort. I used a socket and a few old nuts. The thread may be a problem, I had an old hydraulic pump and used one of the bolts from that. DO NOT DRIVE IT OUT FROM THE BACK! Terminal damage will be done to the valve.

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You can lightly tap the valve out once you have the plug out as this may be stuck.

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Polish the valve with metal polish, do not use any form of abrasive on it as this can cause scratching on the surface and lead to more problems. You may have a metal ring or an "O" ring on the front part of the valve. If it is a metal ring it is OK to CAREFULLY put it back. You can ease it back with a small screwdriver working all around it and gently pushing on the valve.

If it is an "O" ring only replace it with one from New Holland NOT any old "O" ring that you can get. The proper one has a blue spot on it. Using any other type can cause more sticking problems. If in doubt leave it off, the lift will work perfectly without it. This was a "Ford Fix" back "in the day" until the introduction of the metal ring.

Go to the Wiki, "fordsontractorpages" and "dotty", from the headings of this page and you will find an article on setting up the lift without all the special tools.
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willy wagon
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Re: lift arms

Post by willy wagon »

thanks a bunch. pics make it so much easier. hope to remedy that problem soon. then i have to deal with power steering issues and then the tractor will be in great condition .

willy wagon
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Re: lift arms

Post by willy wagon »

well i had no luck trying to get the lift arms to work. took all apart there was water in there. the valve was stuck but not bad, everything freed up quite nicely. no signs of rust. got everything moving freely, i however did not do any settings. the arms would not raise at all. i want to check pump ptessure out next. then have to go back in there.

super6954
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Re: lift arms

Post by super6954 »

Hi
Just gonna ask the stupid question first you do have pto drive in gear to drive the pump, wouldn't be the first time a guy forgot that here :wink:
with the last super I brought I had problems with 2 valves :eyes: .
one was the one that you have taken out and cleaned. still had no lift :cry: after trying another top valve assembly it started working, the other stuck valve was in the divert-er valve on top of the cover. so took that apart and getting the stuck valve out was pretty hard :!: . I finally got it free and clean. It now works perfectly :) . That was a single acting 1 pipe hyd top valve, with the push pull tip pipe or linkage operation selector :wink: .
If you have the double acting spool instead there maybe a similar valve in that also :idea: . Never had one of those apart :( .

I think the valve i cleaned in mine was back right as you looked down when sitting on the seat, I kinda wonder if that's a pressure relief or flow valve to :| my books aren't around to tell me right now :( . That was over 2 years ago so seen way too much other stuff in the shop since then to remember exactly :eyes: .
Regards Robert
A Fordson is for life not just for Christmas !.

Brian
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Re: lift arms

Post by Brian »

You have two different problems, first the lift was stuck up, now it will not raise. Did it raise before you took the lift off?

If it did, then you may have cut the "O" ring on the pressure pipe when you put it back on. Check all Robert's points and if the lift did not raise, strip the Auxiliary Service Chest and flow control to check the flow valve is not stuck. If you have a unit from a working lift handy, swap the Auxiliary Service Chest and see what happens.

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If you suspect the pump and you take the lift off again, put your thumb over the pressure pipe and spin the starter, if you find that you cannot hold your thumb down on the pipe, chances are the pump is OK. You can do this check with the ASC off too as you can put your thumb where the oil comes through the top cover.

Have you had the filter out of the bottom? It may be bunged up.

Is the filter and valve still on the return pipe?

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It is under the oil in this picture.
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peter2
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Re: lift arms

Post by peter2 »

Hi,

is the color of the oil in the last picture normal? Is there any other way to get the water out than boiling the oil in an old fryer? I noticed drops of water in the filler plug.
My oil looks the same and has run only about 5-10 hours so far. But the rear end was not really clean after changing oil last winter.

Peter (actually using the fryer method, but that's an oily business)
1963 Super Major

Brian
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Re: lift arms

Post by Brian »

No, that is the oil before I changed it. A good suggestion on the Nuffield site I visit was to get hold of an old Burco Boiler or an old tea urn and use that to heat the oil. Never tried it but it sounds as if it will work.
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willy wagon
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Re: lift arms

Post by willy wagon »

i am trying trying to put a pic of the valve body on top of the cover. not having any luck. anyway when i took it off i turned over the motor on the starter and i could not hold back the pressure from the feed line. when i had kift cover off i could see just part of the return filter. my valve ass. on top of cover is different than the one you show. two hyd hoses come out on it with couplers, to run a hyd cyl. there is a valve with a lever that looks like it would do this job. however i do not see where there is a knob or control to go from pressure to lift arms or the hyd. cyl ? i will try again to upload a pic.

willy wagon
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Re: lift arms

Post by willy wagon »

to answer your question as to how it worked before i do not know. when i bought the tractor motor was the wrong motor and shot. i rebuilt a correct motor.then when i got that running and tried the lift it was down and when used the control to raise it did raise and stayed there till i now recently took the cover off.

super6954
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Re: lift arms

Post by super6954 »

willy wagon wrote:i am trying trying to put a pic of the valve body on top of the cover. not having any luck. anyway when i took it off i turned over the motor on the starter and i could not hold back the pressure from the feed line. when i had kift cover off i could see just part of the return filter. my valve ass. on top of cover is different than the one you show. two hyd hoses come out on it with couplers, to run a hyd cyl. there is a valve with a lever that looks like it would do this job. however i do not see where there is a knob or control to go from pressure to lift arms or the hyd. cyl ? i will try again to upload a pic.
Hi
Ok you got a double acting spool valve fitted, you can't find that change valve cause you ain't got one :wink: .
with that system your hyd cylinder pipes are independent of the linkage raise lower lever, that the type block in the picture is for. ignore that picture and post yours up please :idea: .
There are a fair few of those blocks fitted on majors in the U.S.A and Canada, but have seen 3 or 4 different styles. If it matches one of mine or we see it we can probably figure out the Valves in it.
These were not a very common option in the U.K :(
Have you tried a 3000 psi or so pressure gauge on the tip lines to see if you got pressure, or watched the rubber hoses and see if they move or jump with the lines pressured from the block lever :idea: .
These kinda get hard to diagnose on line. Brians probably found the same as I have you get a feel for what's wrong being there and looking It's called experience over the years. It could be bad o rings stuck valves or a combination of any of the above.
Wouldn't be the first time I have had a top off 4 times before I figured it out. Did have a problem with another valve on the front of the top cover once before. Maybe there is dirt in that also. will go look and see if i can remember what that one was too.
Regards Robert
A Fordson is for life not just for Christmas !.

Brian
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Re: lift arms

Post by Brian »

There is also another problem if you have a spool valve. Is it the correct spool valve for the tractor? If it is one for a '000nd series it possibly the lift arms will not work as the ports in the valve are not the same. The valve works but the lift arms will not.

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The '000nd series valve is on the left.

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The standard Super Major spool valve is the same one as fitted to Dotty, here in the UK but I understand that various markets had their own valves. In the US there is an adapter plate to direct the oil to the right ports, so I am told, to enable the '000nd series valve to work with the lift.
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willy wagon
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Re: lift arms

Post by willy wagon »

its a bit hard to tell but of the two showing the machine face mine is a little different. i seem, hard to tell though that it looks more like the one on the tractor. hopr to get some more time to work on it. winter is just around the corner and so much to do.

super6954
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Re: lift arms

Post by super6954 »

Hi Brian
None of the single DA spool valves i've had here in Canada look even close to Dottys. all my valves have come from supers, but 1 or 2 have the later 000 series part numbers on the handles I believe. there have also been 2 spool DA units as well :) .
Can't say any of mine have noticeable adapter plates fitted either :? .
I do know the last blue orange super i got had the standard U.K single pipe service valve with a double acting plumed off it, and returning to the axle filler. The same kinda deal they did here with new and power majors , but they plumbed those the way it doesn't work right with the lift arms, not the nice way the loader external was bolted on the front in the U.K :cry: .
I'm kinda getting curious now, if i get time to put the spare ones on my supers and see if they work right :) .
I'm half thinking if they do I should start a topic here with pictures, so guys can figure out what they got and also add different ones they have, then see how many different types are out there round the world :idea: .
Regards Robert
A Fordson is for life not just for Christmas !.

Brian
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Re: lift arms

Post by Brian »

I have come up against this spool valve problem a number of times Robert, The valve porting is different between the early and later valves and it means that the lift arms cannot be used when a later spool valve is fitted to the Super. That is why I took those pictures to show the porting difference.

I think that nearly every country had their own spool valves usually made by local companies, I have certainly come actross many different designs in Europe and Australia.

I will take up your suggestion and start up another thread for pictures of the Major, Dexta and Super valves, should be interesting. :clap:
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ford5000y
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Re: lift arms

Post by ford5000y »

Brian & Robert,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/98655547@N05/10838165786/
Here is a video (of course the same video I posted) of a fordson super major around here (it has a minimec pump so probably 62 or early 63). It's got a DAR valve from a 1000 series fitted on it. As you can see in the video, the DAR valve works perfectly, while it's hydraulics also works good (I have encountered it several times with the owner hooking up 3 pt. hitch implements like a scraper blade and a 3-bottom disc plow). Does that means some DAR valves from thousand series tractors will work to a super major while some would not ?

P.S. I have a good day, somehow. Because I managed to see all 4 fordsons here while on the way to school (2 super majors, 2 major diesels, that includes the non-running tractor of my uncle which I dream of) The owner of the other super major recently moved his super major at a place more visible from the road while the other super (the one running on the video) was running again, because this time it looks like the tractors left front tire has some issues about deflating. The tractor went to the welding shop because they have an air compressor in it, so while waiting for more passengers I tirelessly watched the tractor as they fill the front tire with air and when they're finished, the owner reversed it and headed back home.

origin
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Re: lift arms

Post by origin »

Here is the dual DAR that I have on my Super Major, and the 3 point hitch works fine

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1962 Fordson Super Major w/ Robin FEL (6' rough cut mower)
1978 Ford LGT 165 (w/ 42" Mower, 36" Tiller, and 48" Plow)
1976 Ford LGT 165 (Parts Tractor)
1974 Ford LGT 145 (50" Mower, 42" 2 stage Blower, Sleeve Hitch, Cultivator)

Kev SA
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Re: lift arms

Post by Kev SA »

Good morning to all,

I bought a Super Major recently. It is in a very good condition , but the lift arms is not working well. The previous owner ran the lifts on 80w90 that seems wrong, since we run our tractors on 40w15. I don't know if he did it because of a bypass that he hoped to solve by using thick oil.

At first the arms didn't move and I got it to move, but you can hold it down with very little pressure.
It lifts all the way to the top and all the way to bottom , but no power what so ever. I did find a o-ring in the oil when I drained the oil to clean the restrainer at the bottom.

I don't know much about the fixing of haudrolics and hope someone can put me on the right direction of what to do.

It seems that the previose guy also struggeled with lifts , because all the valve springs are shimed with wasers.

Regards Kevin Jooste
South Africa

Brian
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Re: lift arms

Post by Brian »

Hi Kev,

The problem with your hydraulics is a bit hard to diagnose from thousands of miles away without a bit more information.

It could be one of many things, it could be the flow control valve on the top of the lift or it could be the hydraulic pump itself. If the top has been off it could be faulty "O" rings on the pressure pipe or on the ram cylinder itself. It could also be the pressure relief valve itself.

There is no valve in the lift that benefit from washers added as you say, other than the pressure relief valve but you are not clear on where the washers have been added. Washers in the PRV can also be a problem if not added with the help of a pressure gauge. Just fitting washers can end up with requiring a new hydraulic pump. :(

If you have found broken "O" rings in the filter it could come from a previous repair that has not been cleaned out. Or it could be from the pressure pipe and was cut off when the lift was put back.

As far as the oil goes, on a Super Major, you really need a Universal oil or even your 15/40W, not 90W. 90W gives a problem as it cannot flow through the small ports and orifices in a Super hydraulics.

Have you got the lift off? Have you got access to another flow control valve/auxiliary service plate from another tractor? To just swap one over to test is an easy task. Have you got a pressure gauge? It would be very helpful.
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Pascal
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Re: lift arms

Post by Pascal »

Hi guys,

I used to have a DAR from a Ford 2000/3000 ? mounted on my tractor. It worked great: i could use the lift and hydraulics at the same time.

Last weekend I mounted the original SuperMajor hydraulics back on my Super, after leaving it on the shelf for a couple of years.
The external hydraulics seems to work great, but the lift only lifts slowly. :shock:
The lift has plenty of power, so that's no problem.
I have fitted new O-rings and a new gasket. Is it correct, that I mounted seven O-rings (6 small and 1 large)?

Do you have any ideas what the problem could be? Could a valve been stuck after leaving it on the shelf for couple of years?
Best regards,
Pascal

Fordson's don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory.

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