White Smoke Stalling Out

[oldblue2]

Here my problem . I have a 1962 Super Major . Starts fine . It will run 2 -3 hours no problems idles /accelerates like it should . Then it will start puffing white smoke . Like it is running out of fuel and then die out . I had a problem with rust in the fuel tank . I have relined the tank , changed out the pre screen in the tank , replaced the supply hose to the lift pump , replaced the lift pump , replaced the primary filter , replaced the secondary filter . The injector pump was rebuilt and installed 4 years ago . My thoughts are the injectors sticking when they get hot ? Injector pump going bad when it gets hot ? I have pulled the fuel cap off but only after the symptoms show up and at that point it may be to late ? I have to wait a couple of hours then bleed the injectors to get to run . After bleeding the injectors and its still warm I'll have the same problem . If I run to the shed and park it the next day it will start and run great for the 2 - 3 hours . I hope someone my have run across before .

[anthonygos]

if the water level remains the same then have the injectors check.

[oldblue2]

if the water level remains the same then have the injectors check.

That's what I'm thinking ( the injectors ) . Anyone else have a similar condition with their injectors ?

[Brian]

The usual causes for white smoke are:

1. Water in the combustion chambers....... Head gasket or faulty sleeve with either a crack or pin holes. But you say you are not loosing water.
2. Timing retarded ...... This would also make the tractor hard to start but you say it starts perfectly when cold.
3. Water in or bad diesel ...... This should show up in the glass bowl on the fuel pump. Also, if you are getting a partial fuel block, you will see air being drawn into the glass bowl and the level dropping.
4. Poor compression ........ This would also affect the cold starting but could cause bad hot starting.
5. Bad injectors ........ This ought to be visible all the time hot or cold. I doubt they are seizing when hot but could be wrong.
6. Vacuum in the system ........ This could be the problem, if you have a blocked tank filter in the tap she could be getting enough fuel to run for a short time but as the vacuum builds up she will eventually stall. If you then go away and leave her for a while, fuel might filter through the block and allow her to start again.

Try taking the fuel line off from the tank to the pump and watching the flow of fuel. It should be a strong flow, full bore. Add a quart of Automatic Transmission Fluid to the diesl in the tank and see if this helps by lubricating all the working parts of the pump and injectors.

[oldblue2]

Thanks Brain for your input . I'll be running it this weekend and I'm going to try removing the fuel cap when I'm running it . I really thinking it's the injector pump's internal O rings . I put on the original listing that I relined the fuel tank installed a new screen in the tank along with the supply hose and all new filters . When it is starting to shut down I can spray it with brake cleaner and keep it sputtering . I'm sure it's fuel related .

[oehrick]

Because father, for some reason, refused to keep more than a few pints of diesel in the tank, perpetual problems were condensation and fine rust, regularly the filter in the lift pump used to skin over with a slurry of rust paste which you could barely see and fuel starvation would result.

I'm not certain if the Super arrangements are different but my first act was to crack the bleed screw on the pump* and tickle the lift lever, usually no reaction so whip the bowl out, catch some diesel in it, pull and wipe the filter disc, dunk and agitate then reassemble and prime.

It would gradually clear on its own as the vacuum from the diaphragm dropped but would soon clog following a restart.

HTH - *as a result of this the bleed screw ring spanner remains in the front of the battery tray, since it has been mine the tank has been off, cleaned and sealed with diluted Hammerite (not the useless new low VOC rubbish I hasten to add) and I try to keep it with less airspace.

[oldblue2]

I use fuel that's sold at a local gas station . I add Lucas fuel additive , a little Marvelous Mystery oil and a little auto trans fluid to the fuel . I add all this because the new fuels don't have the same lubricating properties that the older fuels had . I also run it with a full to 1/2 full fuel tank .

[Brian]

If you find any "O" rings in the pump you have serious trouble! The pump components are all metal to metal seals and the clearances are measured in thousandth of a millimetre, that is why it is so important to change filters and keep water out of the pump. Even a little mark of rust on the components can destroy the pump.

As a demonstration,you can remove the pumping element and hold it in your hand for a few minutes. It will then not go back in the chamber until it has cooled down.

Sounds like you have done most of the obvious things, one more, have you checked the oil level in the air cleaner? Another thought, do you still have the steel fuel lines or have you replaced them with rubber type ones? Could be the liner of the tube breaking down if you are using petrol lines on a diesel.

[oldblue2]

Brain sounds like your the guy that help me with this . I'm an auto technician by trade . I own my repair shop and work by myself since 1998 . I started my factory training at Chevrolet around 1978 Became a master technician in the 80's worked for Toyota master technician there as well . My father gave the silver spoon will I worked at the Chevy dealership . I've been truly blessed with mechanical abilities . And can tell from your post you have the knowledge I'm seeking . Let me ask you about the fresh air intake . It should run fine with the intake manifold open or unfiltered correct . As far as the steel lines , I assume your are referring to the supply from the petcock to the glass strainer . That is a fuel hose now . The glass strainer is new as well as the second filter .The of the lines are steel and probably original. As far as the injector pump goes your saying there are no orings or internal seals that might fail with tempter . I'm a little stumped on this one and look forward to any suggestions. Thanks Mark

[Brian]

She will not run the same with the air cleaner off or the pipe open. If you have the early Super, which I think you do have, it has a vacuum governor which relies on the slight restrictions in the intake manifold to work. Check that you have two pipes from the manifold to the injection pump.

From the problems you have it sounds like lack of fuel and, as you have to bleed the system to get it going, it seems to confirm this however, many years ago I had a similar problem with a lorry engine and once later in a Major. The lorry took hours to fix because I had to track the fault, the Major only a few minutes because I knew where to look.

When you bleed the injection pump/fuel system is it slightly pressurise? Next time it stalls, take all the injector pipes off and crank the engine carefully watching the injector junctions where the pipes fit. If you see a slight mist from one injector you have found your problem, a sticking plunger or a bad needle seat in that injector. With over 50 years working with these engines I have only seen it twice but it could be the answer you are looking for. Compression is bleeding back through the injector and pressurising the fuel system, the results are the same as a small air leak on the suction side.

Another place to check when she stalls is the pump itself, You should not have to bleed the lines to the injectors, once the fuel is at the pump bleed the pump normally clears the air in the lines to the injectors. Lack of fuel in the injector lines also points to lack of fuel at the pump but there is something else it could be. Remove the side plate on the pump and check that the rack is moving backwards and forwards. You should be able to move it with a screw driver and, once moved, it should fly back under spring pressure. If it is sticking, it could be in the "shut off" position cutting off the fuel to the injectors. A good dose of ATF on the rack would cure the problem. You can run the engine with the pump side plate off for a test but keep it very clean indeed.

[anthonygos]

It may also worth looking at the governor vacuum diaphragm, I have replaced one or two of them in my time. and the manual will also tell you to.....
Close the bleed screws, then loosen the injector pressure line connecting nuts at the injectors, be sure fuel shut-off button is pushed in and crank
engine until fuel flows free of air from the loosened connections. Tighten the fuel injector line connections and crank engine.

[oldblue2]

Brian I knew you are the man . Thanks for the help . I'll be checking it this weekend . It doesn't have the vacuum governor on it , I have run it back up to the shed numerous times with the fresh air intake loose . And I & T service manual I have shows the images for the vacuum governor system and its not on mine . I was thinking about the supply hose I installed recently , its possibly that it may be collapsing . But whenever I ran around the tractor and checked the prescreening glass bowl it has always been full and has clear fuel in it . When I serviced the injector pump , I also added some Lucas engine oil additive to fresh oil . With my luck . It'll be the injectors . I really think this is where the problem lies , when I do bleed the injectors , # 1 injector flows really well , the others do seem to mist more . I've read in the service manual about the nozzle ends . My tractor is on the cut for one of the two possible choices . The manual says you can use either as long as your changing them as a set . Do you a preference ? And if the injectors need to replaced shouldn't the whole injector be changed out not just the nozzle ends . Thanks so much for your help .

[anthonygos]

The only way to be sure is to have them tested, and I would replace them has a set, unless the others are 100% good..!

[anthonygos]

Is this the pump you have..?

[oldblue2]

Yes it sure is .

[anthonygos]

Only things that I can see in your list is to recheck the timing and check the injectors. (I would have the injectors check out)

[oldblue2]

I ran around this A.M. . Changed out the Battery then then the cables .Finally got it to light up , never been that hard to start before . Ran it around the yard lots of popping and white smoke . So I parked it and pulled the injector lines off and was checking for volume and equal spray from the injector pump . I did get a couple of revolutions in , and did see even pressure and volume . Then I the smoked starter motor . I have 2 cores now . I got a smoking deal on the last one I bought off E bay , a rebuilt one for $45 U.S. The man that sold it lived locally and drove over and picked it up . Said he bought it from a company that was going out of business for $ 20 . Got lucky there and don't think it going to happen this time . Well I guess I 'm the hunt for injectors and a starter .

[Brian]

Just before you do, in the centre of the stop lever pivot is a little button for the cold start, just grip it with a pair of pliers and pull outwards whilst operating the stop. Sometimes these stick in.

[oldblue2]

The manual I have calls it an excess fuel button . I haven't checked it but will this A.M . Brain any thought on the starter , new or second design after market starters . And the same on the injectors . In your opinion should I just change out the nozzle ends or change out the whole injector . If you know of the part # or suppliers for any of these parts I would appreciate your help in locating the parts or the part numbers

[anthonygos]

If your injectors are bad then they're will need more then just a nozzle change, so unless you the kit and have done the job before I would recommend you take them in or send them away to be done, has for the starter it is nominally (more often then not) the field coils that burn out, which you can buy and replace yourself, after you have checked out the armature, again if you hav'nt done this type of work before best to replace it with new or reconditioned one.

[oldblue2]

As for a super major .I haven't done those type of injectors . As for a diesel injectors disassemble and clean yes . I am a automotive master technician ,there Is not a part on a car I haven't disassembled . As a master G.M. technician I could overhaul 2 to 3 crappy G.M. pumps in a day . As for injectors I have disassembled them and put them in a ultra sonic cleaner and used the factory manual pump to check for spray patterns . As for starter motors I have used a growler to check for opening in windings , changed out end bushing and brushes . I don't own a growler , ultra sonic cleaner or a manual pump to check the injectors . But I do have a wallet and some change in it . Do you have any part # for the injectors or starter motor . Have you used a after market second design starter motor . Or know of anyone who has ? Are they a POS or do they function well ?

[anthonygos]

Part number for the hole injector is 993157 and has for the parts numbers........

[anthonygos]

Has for the starter motor E1ADDN-11000-D Starter motor, drive and switch assy.....52/
E1ADKN-11001-C Starter motor and drive assy.....52/

All the starter motor's that I have fitted over the years on them have come from the Lucas dealers, or from Ford dealers.

[oldblue2]

Thanks Anthony . I have found some of the parts on E bay . I was going to call on Monday before ordering and making sure everything fits . I'll use your numbers and maybe I can order them tonight . I looked for a little but couldn't find any field coils .

[anthonygos]

http://www.silverfoxtractorspares.com/f ... 0916-p.asp

http://www.globalsources.com/si/AS/Nant ... 134736.htm

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/icsonlineltd/L ... 1826975014

http://www.amazon.com/REPLACEMENT-START ... B008Y3RKDA

Just a few I can see that you are in the USA, so you may find someone nearer to you, and by the way I still have my injector tester same one that I have had for 40 years, anyway good luck, keep looking you will find parts out there, come back and let us know how you get on. Tony