Hi
I've recently bought back my grandads super major. When I collected it the chap said the it needs a new start button on starter, changed that and still won't start on lever. Also changed the look and solenoid and still no start on lever I have to use the button on solenoid.
There is one red wire near solenoid on loom which according to diagram says earth, where abouts to Earth ???
Anyone got any suggestions as to why she won't start on lever?
Kev
Super major wiring
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anthonygos
- True Blue
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Re: Super major wiring
Is it a push on type connector if so it goes onto the solenoid shown in photo, if it has a ring type connector it fits on the battery - side of the solenoid (big wires)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymuko7rwd34oy ... y.jpg?dl=0
A photo will help if you still need help.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymuko7rwd34oy ... y.jpg?dl=0
A photo will help if you still need help.
Don't just leave it in the shed, Fordson's are made to work, so take it out and work it....!
Re: Super major wiring
You should have two small red wires from the loom that go to the switch on the starter. One comes from the ignition switch and will show 12 volts when the ignition is switched on. The other is the feed to the small terminal on the solenoid and should show 12 volts when the lever is pressed. The end to the solenoid may be either a push on connector or a small ring terminal depending on the age of your tractor or if the solenoid has been replaced.
If the solenoid has been replaced at any time, just check to see if there are two small terminals. Some of the later solenoids had an earth terminal that had to be connected before they work. This earth will be an addition and not part of the loom.
If the solenoid has been replaced at any time, just check to see if there are two small terminals. Some of the later solenoids had an earth terminal that had to be connected before they work. This earth will be an addition and not part of the loom.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian
Brian
Re: Super major wiring
Hi Anthony,
It's a ring type connector on the red wire. I will take photos next time in at the yard. It is by the way negative Earth if that makes any difference ?
Yes no power at the red leads on starter
Kev
It's a ring type connector on the red wire. I will take photos next time in at the yard. It is by the way negative Earth if that makes any difference ?
Yes no power at the red leads on starter
Kev
Re: Super major wiring
Hi Kre
For a super major it should have oil light and charge light, do any of those come on when you turn the ignition key switch on. my super and all my power majors have original switches, that have a sweet spot position in them to get power through the electrical circuit, for the starter to work, basically a guy turns and fiddles with the key until the lights come on, I know mine all the ignition lights work
it will then start. if the lights don't come on it won't meaning no contact through switch.
Dad said the switches were like that in the day to on some tractors, so 50 odd years makes them even worse for originals. Some of the new made in the land of not quite right switches are just as bad for new ones to. I got one here thats just junk right out the box
If you don't have lights working, you need to test with a test light or volt meter to find out what works and doesn't with the switch and wireing and why . We could all be guessing for months here sadly if you haven't done the basic Diagnosis, and are guessing yourself or going by what a guy told you that might be wrong to
.
I got about 25 years experience fixing tractor electrics and have seen most of the guys that don't test things, call me out and it was something simple, they would of found with some basic tests and not just thrown parts at it and it's still wrong.
If a water pump leaks you see it, with electrics you know it's wrong when it don't work, if it blows fuses, it sparks or catches fire 
. you can't physically see how far or where current gets to just looking at a colored wire or connectors 
. Many tractors have had interesting wire modifications to over the years and that can be the most un helpful event to when finding problems . This whole wiring on most majors is 50 years old plus to 
.
Regards Robert
For a super major it should have oil light and charge light, do any of those come on when you turn the ignition key switch on. my super and all my power majors have original switches, that have a sweet spot position in them to get power through the electrical circuit, for the starter to work, basically a guy turns and fiddles with the key until the lights come on, I know mine all the ignition lights work
it will then start. if the lights don't come on it won't meaning no contact through switch.Dad said the switches were like that in the day to on some tractors, so 50 odd years makes them even worse for originals. Some of the new made in the land of not quite right switches are just as bad for new ones to. I got one here thats just junk right out the box
If you don't have lights working, you need to test with a test light or volt meter to find out what works and doesn't with the switch and wireing and why . We could all be guessing for months here sadly if you haven't done the basic Diagnosis, and are guessing yourself or going by what a guy told you that might be wrong to
.I got about 25 years experience fixing tractor electrics and have seen most of the guys that don't test things, call me out and it was something simple, they would of found with some basic tests and not just thrown parts at it and it's still wrong.
If a water pump leaks you see it, with electrics you know it's wrong when it don't work, if it blows fuses, it sparks or catches fire
. you can't physically see how far or where current gets to just looking at a colored wire or connectors . Many tractors have had interesting wire modifications to over the years and that can be the most un helpful event to when finding problems . This whole wiring on most majors is 50 years old plus to .Regards Robert
A Fordson is for life not just for Christmas !.
Re: Super major wiring
G'day Kev; electrical problems can be a real so and so, cant they?
Firstly; earth wires on Majors are coloured WHITE -- not RED as you mentioned for the solenoid -- unless, as Robert pointed out, someone replaced a wire with whatever was available at the time.
Connect a wire, 15 or 25 amp is OK, to the battery positive, live, post and thread it down to the activator switch on top of the starter motor. Bare the wire end and touch it to the red wires [connectors] on the switch -- one at a time. All being well, by doing so, one of the connections should light up the dash lights, and the other should operate the starter. Whilst the starter will turn on it will not start the engine because the drive gear is not engaged with the flywheel ring gear -- you need to use the starter lever to do that.
If the side connected to the dash lights does not light them up, there is a break in the wire from the ignition switch to the activator.
If the starter does not operate when the other connector is touched, then there is a break in the circuit to the solenoid or, the solenoid is u/s.
If both of those circuits work, then the problem is with the ignition key turn on or a break in the YELLOW with red tracer wire circuit from the solenoid connection with the MAIN battery positive cable to the ignition switch.
Pavel
Firstly; earth wires on Majors are coloured WHITE -- not RED as you mentioned for the solenoid -- unless, as Robert pointed out, someone replaced a wire with whatever was available at the time.
Connect a wire, 15 or 25 amp is OK, to the battery positive, live, post and thread it down to the activator switch on top of the starter motor. Bare the wire end and touch it to the red wires [connectors] on the switch -- one at a time. All being well, by doing so, one of the connections should light up the dash lights, and the other should operate the starter. Whilst the starter will turn on it will not start the engine because the drive gear is not engaged with the flywheel ring gear -- you need to use the starter lever to do that.
If the side connected to the dash lights does not light them up, there is a break in the wire from the ignition switch to the activator.
If the starter does not operate when the other connector is touched, then there is a break in the circuit to the solenoid or, the solenoid is u/s.
If both of those circuits work, then the problem is with the ignition key turn on or a break in the YELLOW with red tracer wire circuit from the solenoid connection with the MAIN battery positive cable to the ignition switch.
Pavel
Re: Super major wiring
Hi all thanks for the replies, yes my dash lights do come on which is what's puzzling me. The red wire is what's shown on the wiring diagram just below the solenoid and shows it going to earth, is this correct?
If I push lever down and then push button on solenoid it will turn over and start.
Will get some photos in the week when I go to yard again
Many thanks
Kev
If I push lever down and then push button on solenoid it will turn over and start.
Will get some photos in the week when I go to yard again
Many thanks
Kev
Re: Super major wiring
You are a little confused by the wording "going to earth" where are you getting that from?
As I said in an earlier post THE RED WIRE GOES TO THE SMALLEST OF THE TERMINALS ON THE SOLENOID!!!!!
OK so it goes to earth through the coils of the solenoid when you operate the starter but you could say that of all the wires taking power to the lights, to complete the circuit everything must go to earth.
Unless you have power onto the switch on the starter from the ignition the solenoid will not work as it should. Robert has told you what to do, take a wire from the live terminal of the battery and connect it to one of the terminals on the starter switch Take another wire from the other terminal and put that on the small terminal of the solenoid. Now try the starter lever.
If the starter works you have isolated both the switch and the solenoid. If it does not work the starter switch is faulty.
If you do not want to do this test then couple the red wire to the solenoid smallest terminal and, as Robert says, take a feed direct from the battery tothe other side of the switch. See what happens.
Another confusing thing is both red wires at the starter switch both disappear into the loom and only one comes out in the area of the solenoid. Normally one of the wires at the switch is live when you turn the ignition on, if it is not so in your case, then there is a fault in the wire or in the ignition switch although if your lights come on, then one of those red wires should be live.
As I said in an earlier post THE RED WIRE GOES TO THE SMALLEST OF THE TERMINALS ON THE SOLENOID!!!!!
OK so it goes to earth through the coils of the solenoid when you operate the starter but you could say that of all the wires taking power to the lights, to complete the circuit everything must go to earth.
Unless you have power onto the switch on the starter from the ignition the solenoid will not work as it should. Robert has told you what to do, take a wire from the live terminal of the battery and connect it to one of the terminals on the starter switch Take another wire from the other terminal and put that on the small terminal of the solenoid. Now try the starter lever.
If the starter works you have isolated both the switch and the solenoid. If it does not work the starter switch is faulty.
If you do not want to do this test then couple the red wire to the solenoid smallest terminal and, as Robert says, take a feed direct from the battery tothe other side of the switch. See what happens.
Another confusing thing is both red wires at the starter switch both disappear into the loom and only one comes out in the area of the solenoid. Normally one of the wires at the switch is live when you turn the ignition on, if it is not so in your case, then there is a fault in the wire or in the ignition switch although if your lights come on, then one of those red wires should be live.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian
Brian
Re: Super major wiring
Went outside andtook these pictures of my Super which is waiting for repair. The colours are faded and the wiring burnt at the switch but they may help a bit.
You can just about see the colours.
You can just about see the colours.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian
Brian
Re: Super major wiring
Thanks Brian for the info and photos, what's confusing is the red wire has a large ring connector and the solenoid has two little connectors as well as the 2 large. It's got a new loom, new solenoid and new starter switch. I've even tried disconnecting all the light wires from key switch leaving the two main ones. I need to get a meter on the case sadly I don't always carry one(steam engine tools mainly carried).
Many thanks
Kev
Many thanks
Kev
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oehrick
- Site Governance Team
- Posts: 1239
- Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:41 am
- Location: Norfolk Broads UK
Re: Super major wiring
Are you more used to working on Chaloner than a Major Kev ??
These knowledgeable chaps will get you through
These knowledgeable chaps will get you through
Best regards
Rick - Bogside on Bure
1958 Diesel E1A Mk2 s/n 1470165 - still in working clothes
Rick - Bogside on Bure
1958 Diesel E1A Mk2 s/n 1470165 - still in working clothes
Re: Super major wiring
OK Kev, if you have a new loom then it is likely that none of the colours match what was on the old loom. (Land of Nearly Right Product) so saying the red wire goes to the solenoid is probably not right.
If you have a meter, check with the "Continuity" setting or even the "Diode" test setting which wire goes from the starter switch to the solenoid. If it is your red wire then they have put a large ring on rather than a small one.
If you have two small terminals on the solenoid you may find that one should be earthed. If you look at my picture of the solenoid you will see a second terminal opposite the one with the red wire, this is the earth terminal. Originally the solenoid coil was earthed to the outer case and still is on ones of this type used in the automotive industry but these solenoids are not now capable of carrying the power required to start a Major. The heavy duty solenoid that will carry that power mostly have the second earth terminal.
Anyway, steam engines are far more complicated than a dear old Major. At least with a Major you don't have to flick the belt pulley over to get her to move.
If you really want to, try your electrical skills try something like this when you have no wiring diagram and some nice person has been inside with a pair of cutters and clipped all the wires off!
If you have a meter, check with the "Continuity" setting or even the "Diode" test setting which wire goes from the starter switch to the solenoid. If it is your red wire then they have put a large ring on rather than a small one.
If you have two small terminals on the solenoid you may find that one should be earthed. If you look at my picture of the solenoid you will see a second terminal opposite the one with the red wire, this is the earth terminal. Originally the solenoid coil was earthed to the outer case and still is on ones of this type used in the automotive industry but these solenoids are not now capable of carrying the power required to start a Major. The heavy duty solenoid that will carry that power mostly have the second earth terminal.
Anyway, steam engines are far more complicated than a dear old Major. At least with a Major you don't have to flick the belt pulley over to get her to move.
If you really want to, try your electrical skills try something like this when you have no wiring diagram and some nice person has been inside with a pair of cutters and clipped all the wires off!
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian
Brian
Re: Super major wiring
From the symptoms you have now described, and the actions you make to start the engine, it would appear that the problem is incorrect, or insufficient, wiring of the solenoid.
The solenoid is a reasonably simple device to wire up. It needs one wire to supply current [from the actuator switch in your case] and a path to earth. Unlike early Majors, where the solenoid was mounted on a metal frame which had a direct pathway to the battery earth, the Super is mounted on an insulated panel and therefore requires an additional earth wire from it to the engine, gearbox or frame. THAT SHORT EARTH WIRE SHOWN IN THE DIAGRAM IS NOT SHOWN AS RED -- THE RED IS THE LIVE INPUT WIRE CODE. You will obviously need an additional wire connection to earth from the second spade, or eyelet, terminal. Since the solenoid is mounted on an insulated panel it doesn't matter which side the main supply wire is connected to; but in the interests of future safety it is best to do it correctly. Failing + or - being marked, use your multi-meter set on ohms [resistance -- an upside down horseshoe] and connect each terminal, one at a time, between it and the solenoid casing. The one with the greatest reading [not infinity] is the live + side.
The other, spare, red wire you describe, with the large eyelet, could well be one of the 2 connected to the large main feed terminal from the battery. These are numbered 8 and 10 on the wiring diagram and go to the ignition switch and voltage regulator respectively.
As an aside; I cannot find where Robert suggested using a wire connected to the battery live, Brian.
The solenoid is a reasonably simple device to wire up. It needs one wire to supply current [from the actuator switch in your case] and a path to earth. Unlike early Majors, where the solenoid was mounted on a metal frame which had a direct pathway to the battery earth, the Super is mounted on an insulated panel and therefore requires an additional earth wire from it to the engine, gearbox or frame. THAT SHORT EARTH WIRE SHOWN IN THE DIAGRAM IS NOT SHOWN AS RED -- THE RED IS THE LIVE INPUT WIRE CODE. You will obviously need an additional wire connection to earth from the second spade, or eyelet, terminal. Since the solenoid is mounted on an insulated panel it doesn't matter which side the main supply wire is connected to; but in the interests of future safety it is best to do it correctly. Failing + or - being marked, use your multi-meter set on ohms [resistance -- an upside down horseshoe] and connect each terminal, one at a time, between it and the solenoid casing. The one with the greatest reading [not infinity] is the live + side.
The other, spare, red wire you describe, with the large eyelet, could well be one of the 2 connected to the large main feed terminal from the battery. These are numbered 8 and 10 on the wiring diagram and go to the ignition switch and voltage regulator respectively.
As an aside; I cannot find where Robert suggested using a wire connected to the battery live, Brian.
Re: Super major wiring
Don't get old Pavel, your eyesight and brain start to fade!
Otherwise this may help:
Otherwise this may help:
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian
Brian
Re: Super major wiring
Ta, Brian; know the feeling -- I'm 81!
Pavel
Pavel
Re: Super major wiring
That's the diagram I've been working to. It's red wire no.6 I'm not sure where to put it. I'm over the yard on Friday so will take photos of what I've got and where. I take it that the other smaller wires with ring connectors which are connected to solenoid, one of them would be a feed to key switch ?
Many thanks
Kev
Many thanks
Kev
Re: Super major wiring
One end of your no. 6 red wire connects to the solenoid [small connectors] and the other end to the actuator switch on the starter -- as per the wiring diagram you are using. If you're not sure if you have both ends of the same wire, use your continuity tester [ohms/resistance] of your multi meter attached to both ends.
For correct polarity of your solenoid see my post above -- after making sure that battery volts are not connected to it at the time.
Since you are using the correct wiring diagram which lists 2 red wires for the actuating switch, and one connecting to the solenoid, -- and you have those coloured wires -- I'm not sure what your problem is.
Pavel
For correct polarity of your solenoid see my post above -- after making sure that battery volts are not connected to it at the time.
Since you are using the correct wiring diagram which lists 2 red wires for the actuating switch, and one connecting to the solenoid, -- and you have those coloured wires -- I'm not sure what your problem is.
Pavel
Re: Super major wiring
Just re-read your last post again. The 2 spare wires you have [shown as 8 (yellow/red) and 10 (yellow) ] should have large eyelet connectors and are fitted to the terminal with a large nut containing the main, large cable, from the battery. As my post, above, stated, they supply volts to the ignition switch and the voltage regulator. Again, if you are not sure, use the continuity circuit on your multi meter. Even if the loom colours you have are not the same as the original Fordson ones, one end of a wire will still have the same colour at the other end of it.
Pavel
Pavel
Re: Super major wiring
Hi all,
Well it's sortred and was simple when someone who knew electrics looked at it. I hadn't got an earth cable from solenoid to the tractor!
Now...... Next I need to find the cause of the severe vibrations on my other Super...
Well it's sortred and was simple when someone who knew electrics looked at it. I hadn't got an earth cable from solenoid to the tractor!
Now...... Next I need to find the cause of the severe vibrations on my other Super...