No lift on Super Major

[Maarten]

Hi Guys,


My Super Major won't lift anymore. I have a manual and there i followed this troubleshouting:



I have removed the plug and when i turned engine with starter i had no oil flow coming out, did i checked at the right plug?
So next i have taking top cover off, then i checked the feed line and there was pressure when i blocked it off with my finger while cranking the engine, don't know iff the pressure was high enough as i don't have a tester... But i thought maybe i schould point my attention to the top cover as there was no oil coming out off the plug.

So i began reading alot on forums and then i came acros this forum where i have read topics from Majors with hydraulic problem specially the ones where the lift doesn't come up like mine, from what i can read many people suggest to look at the flow control valve.



The retainer cap and spring came out but don't really know how to get the valve out and if there is one or not...
Is the valve really located behind the spring as in the image?
In the manual they talk about selective fit, can somebody explain further, is that a very tight fitting? Could there be rust some sort of deposit in between that blocks it from coming out?

I have tried a few things to get it out:
i have disasembeld the whole top cover, and put the thing a few days i dieseloil: no result
then a day in wd40: no result
i have heated the top cover: no result


Somebody have any advice for me?

many Thanks Maarten

[Brian]

Sounds as if you do have a stuck flow control valve. It should drop out under its own weight when you remove the spring, heating will possibly make it even tighter and soaking with diesel will destroy any other "O" rings left in the valve chest. If you can borrow/buy another valve chest, (borrow best) that you can try to confirm the problem that would be the best plan as it could also be a stuck unload valve.

Go very carefully as you try and remove the valve, any damage can mean that you have to buy another one anyway.

[Maarten]

Hi Brian,

thanks for the quick reply...

Can you confirm that i checked oil coming out on the right plug?

Think i have tried everything to remove the valve but with no luck so far... i'm out off ideas for removing it without damage!
Borrowing one is a good idea just need to source one...
Can you buy them new? Valve chest and flow valve?

You say it also could be a stuck unload valve... when that would be the case can there be pressure on the feed tube towards the valve chest like on mine?

[Brian]

Yes you are on the right plug.

Yes oil would come up the pressure tube from the pump with a stuck unload valve, the unload valve is in the ram cylinder under the control valve.

Second hand chests come up on e-bay. I have got two or three from old lifts but they are of the previous design with no flow control.

[Maarten]

I have found and installed a secondhand chest.

Still no lift...

I have removed the plug, spring, ... flow valve seems to be stuck also on this unit. isn't coming out on its own weight.


grrrrrrrr :s

[Brian]

Then your problem is inside the rear axle, so the top will have to come off. Just to recap, You have got the PTO in gear?

With the Aux Chest off,(that is the part with the flow control valve), pull the engine stop and operate the starter. Does oil come out of one of the ports? Can you stop it by putting your thumb over it? If no oil or you can stop the flow with your thumb, problem is most likely to be pump or pipe to lift. If you cannot stop it them problem is most likely to be in control valve or unload valve. The oil from the port is straight from the pump so the test isolates all the other workings of the ram cylinder.

[Maarten]

Hi Brian,

Pto is engaged!

Yes i have got oil flow out 1 port and it can't be blocked with thumb when cranking the engine. So i will be checking the control valve and unload valve this weekend!

Just a little bit confused with the flow control valve....


thx

[Brian]

The valve chest you have been working on has the diverter valve for the auxiliary service which diverts the oil from the pump to either the ram cylinder or to the port you were checking, and the flow control valve, the one that was stuck in your original unit.

[Maarten]

Managed to get the unload valve out off its housing,
(note: i did it the correct way not by giving blows on the other side, i did it like you in another topic i found here )

How schould the unload valve be moving in its housing? Feels like its kinda hard to move up and down, need to aply a bit force.


The valve where the cone shape is attached to is that the control valve?
that one is moving very good up and down with no force needed at all for giving you an idea.


Grtzz

[Brian]

The unload valve should be able to fall through the bush and sleeve under its own weight without an "O" ring. The "O" ring is a special one and only one from Case New Holland will do. Take the ring off and check how the valve moves, someone may have removed it in the past by hitting it and bent it. You cannot see when they are bent, I have one here that looks perfect until you put it in the bush.

[Maarten]

Yep it does just that, on it's own weight it goes trough nice and easy without the o ring.
How does it need to feel with a proper o ring on it? on a scale from 1 to 10? 1 no force and 10 big force.
i barely touched the o ring and it broke in 2, was become very hard , put a new own in that was with the whole o ring kit i bought to redo the hydraulics.

I hope that one will do as i read your info on the special o ring from new holland

give it a try? or you say don't waste your time and go buy the new holland one? )



Where goes this half piece? It's not broken its a straight cut. Can this be the retainer (111 on exploded vieuw from the manual) on the oil feed line?
It fits the oil line but it not gonna fit in the hole on the lift cover its about 1-2 mm to big.

[liam]

It goes on the feed pipe ,should be two of them , Liam.

[Maarten]

Maybe i am doing something wrong but it wont fit the hole on the lift cover where the oil pipe goes into the lift cover...

[Brian]

As Liam says there should be two of the retainers, they go in the groove around the pipe and should fit flush into the rear axle housing . They stop the pipe being pushed down when you fit the lift or when the pressure comes on as the lift works.. Never had any problem with them except on the first Super lift I ever worked on when I thought it was a broken spring washer and threw them away! Took a long time to find them on the dirt floor of a dark shed.

The problem with the unload valve "O" ring is that normal rings tend to swell when hot. This causes the valve to jam and the lift to stick up or not lift. Ford replaced the "O" ring with a metal ring on later tractors and you could get a new valve and metal ring as an upgrade. It is the same valve in the '000nd Series so there might be some out there.



Back in the day before the modification, one of the ways to cure the problems with the unload valve was to leave the "O" ring off. If it was a choice to either leave it off or fit a none CNH ring I would leave it off.

The unload valve works on only about 10-12 psi. This pressure comes from the exhaust filter and valve on the exhaust pipe down into the rear axle so check yours is OK by fitting a new filter. It should not require a lot of pressure to move it, possibly 4 on your scale.

[Maarten]

He guys,

found the other retainer, probably fell when taken the lift cover off.

yes now i understand, they don't sit in the lift cover but they hold the feed pipe in place in the rear axcle housing.

So the feed pipe is gonna be pushed down quite a bit? because in the lift cover there is only a 1.5cm deep hole for the feed pipe to go into.
here i was a bit confused, tought that the retainer must go into the lift cover but after some measurements and your tekst i saw that wasn't the story.







So there is a New Holland Dealer that did Fordson in the past, not quite far from where i live, gonna take the unload valve with me maybe he can help me with the upgraded valve with an metal ring.


Thx for the tips guys really thankfull!!!!

[AdrianNPMajor]

When reassembling, I found holding the collets in situ with some PTFE tape worked well. You know they are not going to be dislodged when you lower the lid.
Best, Adrian.

[Brian]

Your main hydraulic feed pipe must be bent as it usually fits down snug when bolted to the pump. There should be no need to retain the colletts in any way if the pipe is right and they fit snug into the axle housing.



This was mine when I first took the lift off before changing the oil. As you can see at the top right of the picture, the feed pipe is fitting snug down.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Quite right, Brian. I managed to stretch the pipe by not raising the lid horizontally. I can see that the PTFE wouldn't be necessary otherwise.
Best, Adrian.

[Maarten]

Good tip Adrian!

yes must be bend or something as i compare yours with mine... hmzzz

What's the first pipe on your picture Brian, the one just before the feed pipe? haven't got that one....

[Brian]

Think you may have found the reason your lift does not work. That pipe is the oil return pipe from the lift and has the exhaust filter and exhaust valve on it. The valve maintains a pressure of around 10 - 12 psi in the system to work the unload valve.

They were either fitted to a bracket on the pressure pipe as mine is or the later modification had a bracket mounted on one of the pump retaining bolts.

[Maarten]

Don't know if that's the main reason or not but last summer the lift worked fine and the lift cover hasn't came off since...

Will see this saturday when i put things back togheter if the lift is gonna work or not.

[Maarten]

Tractor hydraulics are up and running!

Lift performs great, also with heavy loads, tested with some equipment today.

Must have been the unload valve that was a little bit stuck, i have left the o-ring off like suggested here...


Thanx for the help guys! many thanks