The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Hi all.
Got an old Supermajor after my granddad that i believe havent been run for the last 10-15 years.
About two years ago my brother and i tried to start it with no luck, and found the injection pump not injecting anything to the motor.
We dismounted the pump in hope to find someone with skills to overhaul/fix it, but it didnt get that far.

In a weak moment last year I started to pull it appart, and found some rusty parts inside that broke.
The first imge here shows the rusty area in the top of injection pump. I still got the spring that i believe should fit there, it looks in ok condition.
So my question to you is; Is there any hope to fix this? Where can i eventually get parts for it? Am I better off getting a new complete one?

The rusty area:
http://ghstudios.net/fordson/image%20(8).jpg
http://ghstudios.net/fordson/image%20(9).jpg

The Injection Pump P4596:
http://ghstudios.net/fordson/image%20(7).jpg

Engine Serial:
http://ghstudios.net/fordson/image%20(2).jpg

Some other number:
http://ghstudios.net/fordson/image%20(5).jpg

The Fordson:
http://ghstudios.net/fordson/image%20(10).jpg

You have an early 1963 Super with a Minimec pump.

In my opinion you cannot overhaul an injection pump without the proper tools to set and re-calibrate it. If you attempt to do so you run the risk of damaging the whole engine. Pumps should be serviced in a dust/dirt proof room. I spent time in our pump room and took courses at Ford Motor Company on injection systems as part of my training.

Your pump should have had oil in the area you are looking, to lubricate the governor. You may be able to clean that area up and get it to work again but DO NOT GO FURTHER. You could take the side plate off and see what it looks like in there, any rust on the pumping elements means you need another pump as a mark finer than a human hair spells the end of its life. You say that the pump was not injecting, that is a bad sign and may not be related to the area you are looking at.

Reconditioned pumps are available of e-bay and so are s/h units but there is a chance a second hand one would be in the same condition as yours. It depends on what you want to do, it could be foolish spending a lot of money on the pump only to find the rest of the tractor needs a lot of money to get it right. Saying that, she is still an excellent tractor and worth saving but it depends how deep your pockets are.

Thanx for your answer Brian, though it wasn't as pleasing reading as I was hoping for

I didn't think an old pump like this could be that fragile to dust, and the risk of damaging the rest of the engine i certainly do hope i still can avoid.
More questions came to mind when reading your reply.

1: Looking closely at http://ghstudios.net/fordson/image%20(7).jpg you can see that I did start to open up the top block with the P4596 sign on it. Am I already screwed by doing this? It didn't come all the way off as I didn't want to force it open.

2: The side plate you mention, is this the one with SIMMS logo on it that is already off aswell?

3: Since you mentioned the governor, I did a quick study how it works. In the upper area http://ghstudios.net/fordson/image%20(8).jpg i do think theres a "bar/lever" missing that was in such bad condition it broke, and there should also be a spring fitted somewhere. If this "bar/lever" had broke off, would this kind of simulate too high PRM, and then permanently block the diesel flow??
I might be far off here, but thats what came to mind.

4: Any other issues you can think of that relates to the pump not injecting? The diesel flows through the pipes towards the injection pump when we try to start it, and the 4 pipes from the pump to the motor are also open.


It would be really great to have sweet machinery back in business, I´ve wanted this for years now, though I dont want to bankrupt myself getting there
Started checking eBay and local markets.
Is this the right stuff, and a safe bet?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fordson-Super-M ... 2a53ba4c84
Pretty expensive stuff, but if its guaranteed to be in pristine condition nothing would be more helpful for eventually to move along with further problem solving.

It is one of the problems in dealing with injection equipment that people do not understand the reason for the tools (brass brushes and extremely fine probes) special rooms and special testing equipment. The clearances inside the pumping elements are measured in microns, if you remove the pumping elements and hold each in your hand for a few seconds chances are you will not get them back together and, if you do, the salt from your skin may rust them together in a few minutes. This also goes for things like injectors. When people tell me they polished the injector nozzles with a wire brush my skin starts to creep!

Soaking in diesel is often used for freeing up seized or rusted parts because diesel will creep through the tiniest of gaps. Imagine then trying to compress diesel to around 2300 psi with just a metal to metal seal to get it to inject into the engine. That is why the parts are so finely made and assembled. A true diesel shop is a bit like an operating theatre and this adds to the cost. The price you have found is not bad for a fully reconditioned pump, it is a piece of highly tuned equipment. Some injectors for later Ford tractors and John Deere tractors retail at £1500 each and one injector for my Range Rover was over £400.00.

The other problem with handling diesel under pressure is that it can kill you. If any part of your body gets in the mist from an injector or leaking pipe it will penetrate the skin and can cause severe blood poisoning, need for amputation and heart attack. You need to get to a hospital very fast and hope they can handle what has happened. The affected part needs to be kept below the level of the heart not strapped up in a sling (arm or hand).

Lecture finished but please understand what you are dealing with.

From your pictures, the inside of the cam box and elements behind the plate do not look too bad. I would make sure the rack is free and give things a good squirt with Automatic Transmission Fluid and put it back together.

I have photocopied and added below the relevant pages of the workshop manual if they help. You may have to find a diesel shop to supply any broken or damaged pieces but be prepared for parts to cost nearly as much as the pump.

I use paraffin (lamp oil) on freeing up seized or rusted parts, to me its much better then diesel.

Thanx for the manual images, they are very helpful!
Its hard to tell from my images if any parts are missing there, I guess ill just have to soak it in diesel / paraffin, whatever i have in hand, and try out the mechanism if i get the parts moving.

Went to the local diesel workshop today, and from the images they doubted they could fix it, and it would be very expensive.
At a minimum wage of $300 just for looking at its condition, there was a chance I could end up carrying the parts back home, all separated in a bag

Well, i guess i will just grease and re-assemble the parts i tried to open, and then clean out the governor area and find out what parts missing.
If they are obtainable that would be just great, if not, theres always those pumps over seas that can be exchanged.


Thanx for all great help this far, I can keep you updated next time I´ve had a look at it

Hi,

I'm slightly late to the party but I still have some guys in my diesel shop that worked on these pumps and we still have test benches that will test and calibrate these, don't see many these days though. Brian is right be very careful if you are testing the fuel system yourself the pressures involved are huge and can cause injury or death. The modern common rail stuff is even worse. It runs at a pressure of 2500 bar and our 3 test benches that can test them have bulletproof glass cages round them. For comparison the pressure in a truck tyre is only around 8 bar.
If you want to send it to the UK we could probably do a complete overhaul on it. Pretty much the only thing that would make the pump uneconomical to repair would be if the pump housing was worn on damaged.