Super Major Injection Pump oil level

[williamFSM]

I bought a 1964 FSM as a basket case. I have been combing through what literature I can find but can't figure out the oil level of this pump. Pictures I see all have a pipe coming off the front, but I did not get that pipe with the tractor and can't find it for sale. My pump currently has a plug in that hole where the pipe should be. Does anyone know where to purchase that pipe, where does it lead, and how do I set the oil level?

[Brian]

I have marked the filler and level for you, the drain is underneath. Should be filled with engine oil but will gradually dilute with diesel. This is normal.

Pipe should be able to be made up at any diesel shop. If it is the one I think you mean, from the filter to the pump it is the main feed of fuel to the pump.

[williamFSM]

That is not exactly my pump. I have a picture but can not post it to this forum. The pipe which comes from the lower right hand of the pump and exits near the engine oil filter is the one I am looking for. The level and fill plugs you have pointed out are not on my pump.

It is a Simms model SPE4A70S380 with another number stamped on the lower body that I assume is a serial number : 48515 B.

I have it hooked up and running but want to make sure it's correctly oiled before any damage occurs.

[anthonygos]

If you have a pump with a coiled leak-off pipe just below the inspection cover, then that's the level, oil capacity is one-sixth of a pint approximately.

[williamFSM]

If that is just a leak-off pipe, I can easily make one, it's just that I had no idea what it was, with nothing about it in the manual and only pictures which were incomplete. This is only the second tractor I ever owned and the first diesel. This is all new to me, recently purchasing a hobby farm and two Fordson tractors. The Super Major is an awesome beast, with a loader and a backhoe. The other is a Dexta Petrol, relatively unknown here in the States.

Unless someone tells me different, I will make up the pipe this weekend and give it a try. I wish I could post a picture so people could see exactly what I have.

[Brian]

You have the earlier Super with the vacuum governor. The only time you put oil in that pump is when you put the pump into storage, in work it is lubricated by the diesel passing through.

Can you let me have the serial number and engine num ber from your Dexta along with any casting codes you can find. I am keeping a record of as many petrol Dextas as I can find. There were only 4000 made and so far, I have found just under 100 world wide.

[williamFSM]

Ahh, so just put the pipe as a bleed and let out the oil I have in it. Yes it is vacuum governed.

I have the other info and will try to remember to grab the numbers this weekend.

[Brian]

You can leave the oil in, diesel will dilute it and will drop out of the pipe onto the ground. These tractors are designed to run with a leak back from the pumping elements that fills the cam box, most of the time you never see the overflow from the pigtail pipe.

[williamFSM]

Right. My plan was simply remove the plug and allow the oil to drain and then add the pipe.

I have another question that I believe only experience can answer...how much freeplay is allowable at the injection pump drive plate? I examined it before assembly and it does not show any serious signs of wear, but once assembled there appears to be a considerable amount, maybe 5 to 8 degrees, of backlash. Is it time to replace the fiber drive plate?

[anthonygos]

You will have some play (backlash) if you are unhappy just replace it. just make sure you don't move the shaft (pump) a photo of the pump would help, if you want me to post it up for you, send me a message (PM) and I'll give you my e-mail address.

[anthonygos]

Was asked to post photos up..... The close up shot is the one he has..!

[williamFSM]

Thanks for your advice gentlemen! A big help for sure!

[williamFSM]

So, I removed the plug, only a small amount of oil drained out so I guessed pretty good at what the level should be. I replaced the leaking hydraulic line on the backhoe, started her up and went to work on my very first digging job. Before I got there it developed a sudden, sever head gasket leak! ? ? ? All new lower end, block and head were machined, new piston/cylinder assemblies. I assembled it myself paying close attention to torque and tolerances. I did NOT replace the head bolts, having more faith in old iron than new crap. Is it possible they stretched? Maybe just a defective head gasket? I did notice it started easier when first assembled and the injection timing was only about 10 degrees BTDC. The manual called for 23 degrees so I set that and it didn't seem to run as good. I assumed maybe an adjustment on the governor may be necessary but was going to wait until a few "break in" hours were logged. Any ideas?

[williamFSM]

Brian, you said you wanted the Dexta info, I can post it here I guess.

The paperwork I received with the tractor has:
engine # FPL2355E
tractor# 09B707230 (1962)?
gear box# 957E7005T4

[BearCreek Majors]

It's not uncommon for the original head bolts to stretch, I have had several that wouldn't go to full torque, the more I tightened them the more they would stretch. I now use only ARP HAR4-625-5 bolts, they are a little pricy but you can petty much bet your ass they wont fail. I also retorque after its warmed up.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-har4-625-5

Pat

[williamFSM]

Thanks Pat, Summit has been my first choice for performance automotive, I was not aware they carried tractor parts also. Will definitely give them a call.

Btw, usually if a retorque is necessary, it calls for it in the manual. I didn't see it in mine, but, lesson learned, I will do it this time.

[Brian]

Thanks for the info. William, I have added it to the list. She fits in nicely to the 1962 details I have collected but to confirm it let me know a few casting codes, they should be something like "A18H" and are on all the cast parts. easiest ones to find is under the gearbox number you quoted, on the hydraulic lift and on both axle trumpet housings. The gearbox number you quoted is the casting mould number and is the same on all Dextas. Casting codes are also on all Major castings too.



You seem to have blown your head gasket very quickly after an overhaul and Pat has probably put you on the right lines. The head bolts will be "waisted" if stretched just where the threaded part meets the plain shank. You will see why it is called "waisted" when you see it although my "waist" is far thicker now.

It is also important check the liner protrusion of 0.002" to 0.004", a measurement above or below this will cause head gasket failure. This is measured where the liner comes through the block not on the fire ring around the top of the liner.

Another cause is not head gasket but a possible crack in a liner itself, I have had this happen on Nuffy and it really blows the water out of the radiator.

[williamFSM]

Brian, I didn't even actually look at the Dexta last weekend, I had that info from the previous owner but will take a look this weekend. The head gasket, jeez, I should have remembered my early days as a tech when we always retorqued head bolts on engines with copper head gaskets. I have become so accustomed to perma-torque head gaskets that I forgot my roots. Lesson learned I have ordered new bolts and a gasket also the infamous "Indian Head" gasket sealer we always used. I measured the cylinder protrusion at .025 to .030" across the board so they should be correct. The tractor came with new cylinder/piston assemblies so I don't expect a cracked liner. I am pretty confident it is a stretched bolt. This tractor has been disassembled for a number of years and who knows how long it sat non-running before that. There will be more surprises I'm sure!

[williamFSM]

Brian, looking at my paperwork, also has casting numbers, gearbox# c20H , axle left C27H, right B15H and lift case # 957E7051BT5 casting C23H

I can verify these this weekend.

[super6954]

Hi William
I have been following your posts for a while and everybody else seems to be answering your questions fine, one thing I have come across with later super majors is that the head bolt holes close to the sides of the sleeves seem to crack as the blocks bored thin there. take a good look at them, it can be hard to see sometimes.
I have seen more than one like it, the last one had a blown head gasket when it came in here. the gasket was blown by the cracked stud hole. I'm guessing the bolts work loose over time because of heat expansion and contraction round the cracked bolt hole.

I wonder if your measuring the liner height at the top of the flame ring flange on the liner for your .025" height, the measurement should be from the top of the block face to the top of the liner outer block flange, the outer part that fits in the block as Brian said.
The narrow step about 1/8" wide and about.025 or so tall is the flame ring right on top of the liner. the correct measurement is just about enough to catch a finger nail on and feel the raised difference, between the sleeve and block face for correct liner protrusion not trip over wearing a size 10 boot as .025" would be compared to 0.004 .
Hope this makes sense to you
Regards Robert

[Brian]

Good thinking Robert, I had assumed that William had just left a "0" off.

William, looks like your Dexta is all original 1962 as all the casting codes are within a few days. 20th to 27th of March 1962.

[williamFSM]

I will double check the liner protrusion but I'm sure I measured it correctly, according to my IT manual. I'm ordering the new bolts from Summit, are all 17 the same length? I don't remember.

Also, if I need to buy shims, where should I go?

[BearCreek Majors]

Yes all 17 are the same.
I believe the shims are still available from New Holland, and I have seen them available from a few online vendors. I cut my own from shim stock with a good sharp scissors so the edges are clean/sharp. very seldom do I find sleeves that actually need to be shimmed.

Pat

[williamFSM]

Thanks again guys, the head bolts are backordered so I won't get them for two more weeks. It'll kill me to wait that long but in the meantime I'll probably disassemble it and make sure that it's not any worse than just a stretched bolt.

Thanks again!

[BearCreek Majors]

I think I know the guy that cleaned out their stock a little while ago